Jump to content
  • Hey There!

    Please register to see fewer ads and a better viewing experience:100_Emoji_42x42:

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ctrcat

Jonathan Martin

Recommended Posts

"On field nasty" is one thing. "Total a--hole" is another. Ask T.O.'s teammates. If you don't know the difference between those two things, it's something you need to learn.

No, Incognito wouldn't be able to pick on Gross or Kalil, but lesser guys? Undrafted rookies? Maybe even a guy like Edmund Kugbila? Oh yeah. He's not changing, and any team that expects him to is naive.

I'm not really sure what "ocrastraded" means (I'm guessing 'orchestrated' maybe) but it doesn't matter how it came about. This wasn't his first incident. He's had behavioral problems since college (Nebraska gave him the heave ho) and they only got worse when he got to the pros. And after hearing his father talk, it's easy to tell he comes by it honest.

Argue for him all you want. You're wasting your breath. He's never coming here, and that's the right choice.

Jonathan Martin probably isn't either, but he at least conceivably could. Incognito has no shot whatsoever (nor should he).

I don't care if incognito is here or not. My point was I could see it working better here. Then a marshmallow bust like Martin. Again there was no leadership on the Oline in Miami to push the stop button on Incognito actions like there is here. Gross nor Kali would allow him to get out of order with Kugs or any other young player. If it came down between the 2 (which it won't hopefully neither will be here) give me the RG with a nasty streak over the sensitive "victim" protecting the franchise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I don't care if incognito is here or not. My point was I could see it working better here. Then a marshmallow bust like Martin. Again there was no leadership on the Oline in Miami to push the stop button on Incognito actions like there is here. Gross nor Kali would allow him to get out of order with Kugs or any other young player. If it came down between the 2 (which it won't hopefully neither will be here) give me the RG with a nasty streak over the sensitive "victim" protecting the franchise.

 

Whether or not Martin would work here?  Unknown.

 

Your suggestion that Incognito could fit in here?  Dead wrong, but also moot.

 

Teams that take in locker room cancers like that are teams that tend to fail.  Happily, this team doesn't do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether or not Martin would work here? Unknown.

Your suggestion that Incognito could fit in here? Dead wrong, but also moot.

Teams that take in locker room cancers like that are teams that tend to fail. Happily, this team doesn't do that.

That is your opinion. I've seen teams with strong locker rooms bring in "cancers" and have great success.

Examples: Moss and the Pats.

IMO Martin doesn't have the heart nor the ability to work anywhere.

Like I said before Bell may not be good but he's better then Martin.

Real question if Martin was a 6th round pick or undrafted FA. Would this even be a topic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

damaged goods i think we should pass were not at that point where we can bring guys in like that and get the full potential out of them like a Patriots or any team Peytons on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

damaged goods i think we should pass were not at that point where we can bring guys in like that and get the full potential out of them like a Patriots or any team Peytons on.

 

You sure of that?  I mean, guys like Ted Ginn and Mike Mitchell weren't as successful in prior years as they were here.

 

Setting aside the question of Martin, is it valid to say this team doesn't maximize talent?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be a horizontal move, replacing Byron Bell with Martin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sure of that?  I mean, guys like Ted Ginn and Mike Mitchell weren't as successful in prior years as they were here.

 

Setting aside the question of Martin, is it valid to say this team doesn't maximize talent?

 

 

sure never, but Ted Ginn was buried on the 49ers depth chart and Mitchell.......was with the raiders......both didn't have a issue like Martin.

 

wouldn't mine if they sign him but we couldn't get anything positive out of guys like Fua and Norman, it would be a up hill battle but if they feel he's better then bell bring him in immediately

 

 

to answer the second question it's a toss up, before Rivera got here the answer was no but we have gotten good production out of most our players since he's been here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sure never, but Ted Ginn was buried on the 49ers depth chart and Mitchell.......was with the raiders......both didn't have a issue like Martin.

 

wouldn't mine if they sign him but we couldn't get anything positive out of guys like Fua and Norman, it would be a up hill battle but if they feel he's better then bell bring him in immediately

 

I don't think the issue with Fua and Norman was that we couldn't get the best out of them.  I think it's more that their best just wasn't good enough.  Some guys just don't have what it takes.  And that's ultimately on Marty Hurney, not Ron Rivera.

 

So what about Martin?  If we gave him a shot, I'd be okay with it. If we completely avoided him, I'd be okay too. 

 

I do think he has a legit chance to get a fresh start and maybe be a better player somewhere else, and he'll probably get it.  Wherever he does get it, it'll be on him and his new coaches whether or not he succeeds. Just don't see it happening here.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

damaged goods i think we should pass were not at that point where we can bring guys in like that and get the full potential out of them like a Patriots or any team Peytons on.

I don't think he was ever "good"so now he's just damaged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the issue with Fua and Norman was that we couldn't get the best out of them.  I think it's more that their best just wasn't good enough.  Some guys just don't have what it takes.  And that's ultimately on Marty Hurney, not Ron Rivera.

 

So what about Martin?  If we gave him a shot, I'd be okay with it. If we completely avoided him, I'd be okay too. 

 

I do think he has a legit chance to get a fresh start and maybe be a better player somewhere else, and he'll probably get it.  Wherever he does get it, it'll be on him and his new coaches whether or not he succeeds. Just don't see it happening here.

 

i would agree with you on the first part if Rivera didn't stick with fua for so long, norman on the other hand jut doesn't have what it takes i'll agree but why not live with that and move on? i'm eager to see what martin does if he gets pick up by another team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i would agree with you on the first part if Rivera didn't stick with fua for so long, norman on the other hand jut doesn't have what it takes i'll agree but why not live with that and move on? i'm eager to see what martin does if he gets pick up by another team

 

What I've said before about Rivera, and sadly feel is probably still true, is that Rivera's good at motivation but not so great at   evaluation.  And that's an issue when he's the guy who sets the depth chart.

 

The good part, however, is that he now has a boss who's known to be very good at it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he wasn't very good in miami and the only reason he's being brought up over any other JAGs is because everyone knows his name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he was ever "good"so now he's just damaged.

 

To be fair if you dont have all the facts it is hard to pass judgement. All we know is general media stuff and we all know how much BS goes into that to make a story interesting. Unless you reviewed game tape of him and honestly evaluate him as a player it's not right to say he is a bust. 

 

The bigger picture I have a problem with is this attitude peeps have toward the victim. I am sure you wouldnt like it if you got picked on by a white worker at work for harassment for being black/weak and you reported it to management and then people around you started hating on the victim for being a snitch. That is not cool. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair if you dont have all the facts it is hard to pass judgement. All we know is general media stuff and we all know how much BS goes into that to make a story interesting. Unless you reviewed game tape of him and honestly evaluate him as a player it's not right to say he is a bust. 

 

The bigger picture I have a problem with is this attitude peeps have toward the victim. I am sure you wouldnt like it if you got picked on by a white worker at work for harassment for being black/weak and you reported it to management and then people around you started hating on the victim for being a snitch. That is not cool. 

 

I'm not someone who supports the whole "blame the victim" mentality in general, and definitely not here.  As soon as I heard that Incognito was involved, Martin's story had instant credibility.

 

With that said...

 

Concerns about what kind of chemistry he'll have with future teammates are legitimate, and it doesn't mean that the players who have those concerns would condone what Incognito did.  Feel safe to say most of them would not.

 

But you sign a player to your team for one reason only: because that guy helps you win football games.

 

If our GM - or anyone else's - signs Martin, it'll be because they believe he can have sufficient chemistry with his new teammates to contribute to team success.  And regardless of how much sympathy you, me or anyone else has for what happened to Martin, you don't sign a guy that can't make those contributions.

 

So in your opinion, can he do that, or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      19,666
    • Most Online
      2,867

    Newest Member
    Jeff
    Joined
  • Topics

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      144,787
    • Total Posts
      4,661,087
×