grimesgoat

15 hours ago, Basbear said:

pie for that gif.  god what an underrated movie that is.

38 minutes ago, beckersteen said:

OK, but when have we ever shown the desire to keep our own drafted talent? It's just a weird message to attach to this after trading away CMC, DJ Moore, Burns, Donte Jackson and letting YGM and Jeremy Chinn walk. I guess we still have Ian Thomas lol!

CMC, DJ Moore, and Donte Jackson were all extended.

But when you have to rebuild, you have to trade your higher (or potentially higher) contracts for draft assets.  Its the only chance you have to get better.

If you can get these guys into a bidding war, I'd do it.

Vegas gives us 44, 77, 208 and 2025 3rd for 33.

4 picks in the top 77 could net us some very good players.  Starter-caliber LB, TE, WR, and OC could all be on the table.

There are a lot of startable CB, WRs, and C's sprinkled throughout rounds 2-3.  But I think their primary need is to find a clone of Micah Parsons.  A disruptor/dog.  Someone they can line up anywhere and create havoc.  They will go in one of two directions...

Option 1: If Chop is there at 33, they grab him.  At 39, they move back 10-15 spots and get an extra 3rd.  Then they go WR, CB, C/RB with their next 3 picks.

Option 2: If Chop is not there at 33, they move back from 33 10-15 spots and pick up an extra 3rd and a 2025 2nd.  At 39 they pick Cooper or Wilson.  Then they go WR, CB, C/RB with their next 3 picks.

22 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That sounds like a very scary plan. I don't think I would like to downgrade from our only solid OL for years to replacement level players. That would make the money we just spent on that OL seem rather foolish.

Our OL salary in 2024 is 69m vs. 42m league average.  It is expected to balloon to 87m in 2025, second highest in the league, and that is without Corbett.  You have to find a way to bring the average down to a reasonable level.  Team-building means looking out more than the current year.

If you look beyond this year, Corbett is done and releasing Moton would free $17m in cap.  That's a big number.

I think the plan is for Christiansen and Nijman to compete for RT next year.

If Power-Johnson falls to 33, I suspect that will be the pick.  Otherwise I think they will wait until the top of the 4th and go with best available C to sit and learn for a year. 

14 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I'm an IT professional. Just unplug it and wait 2 minutes before you plug it back in. If that doesn't work call the manufacturer or throw it out the window.  Your bill is in the mail.

Dirty Birds indeed.

well done.

I think we'll sign a S and Edge, hopefully Wonnum.  It would also be nice to bring back Foreman on a $2m deal to work with these new guards.  Fill in some holes with some cheap vets at 1-2m for a cb and olb.  Then hit the draft.

Here's my sim...

33. Robinson - Edge

39. Trade - 39, 142 for 49 and 2025 2nd from Cinn.

49. Peyton Wilson LB (really like this guy)

65. Pran-Granger C

101. Burton WR

141. Wiley TE

240. Watts S

Great topic and discussion.

So nice to read through and not have to see the same ole people whining about the prior GM, the owner, and all the blunders committed in hindsight.

Thanks MHS and everyone else contributing.

33 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The roster bonus isn't a trade secret. It wasn't like thia was going to be hard to figure out. Not to mention that is not a very tradeable contract 

If I'm not mistaken, someone trading for Donte would only be on the hook for 4-5 million.  We get the 10mil dead cap hit.  That doesn't seem too extravagant for an above average vet corner.  How many cbs in this draft will step in and be better right now.  If I'm a team that wants to win right now, I may have some interest.

2 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

… IMO isn't not impossible…

I was right there with you until I got distracted with you triple negative. 
 

just kidding - glad to have another optimist around. 

14 hours ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Peter and Greg can move his marks down to give him confidence.

We are officially old.

hanging from the monkey bars with Bobby Brady.

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Personally, I think you should draft an OL every year depending on the depth of the draft at the position.  However, when you trade away your picks, it becomes more about need.

https://themessenger.com/sports/2024-nfl-draft-strongest-weakest-position-groups

According to this source, this is a very good draft at QB, WR (9 in the top 50; 13 in the top 100), CB (no elite players, but a lot of depth--we could use one. 8 in the top 50 players; 13 in the top 100), OT (seven with top 50 grades but it drops off after that) and IOL (There are 8 solid players expected to go between picks 51 and 100). 

Terrible draft for TE, RB, Edge (good on day 1, depth is weak), S (depth) and DT (on days 2 and 3 you can find the penetrating 3 techniques, however.)

What this means: 

We will probably take a WR at #33 because the need and value will be there.  

We will probably take a CB (Horn oft injured, Jackson too.  Frankly, if teams threw on us more, our CBs would have been exposed)

I am guessing that we draft an interior offensive lineman based on our current situation.  (If Moton or Ekwonu is injured, BC would move from G to T.  So we need a G/C type more than at T type at this time, imo.)

At TE, we have Hurst, Tremble, and (from IR) RIcci, who flashed as an effective receiving TE in the past.  I do not see why Tremble is not our blocking TE, and he flashed this season as well.  We simply do not use the TEs effectively.  They can be used better to help with speed rushers and they can run more than curls and outs--they need to drag across the middle to keep the ILBs out of Bryce's face. The way the TEs were used pisses me off.  I don't want to talk about it).  Maybe we go after Noah Fant?  He would be a relatively cheap free agent with a connection to GM and coach here.  (I would guess under $8m?)

X(avier) marks the Spot:  A WR I really like the Xaviers.  Xavier Worthy for the play-action pass offense, although he is a bit slight.  He is an all-around WR who can give formation flexibility. Xavier Legette is large and fast--and he will be there on day 2.

YAC guy: (based on his history of open field running--think WR screens, reverses, etc.) is Western Kentucky's   Malachi Corley, a player who could be there around pick 101. 

Catch Radius (Mike Evans type) guy:  While not as good as Evans, Johnny Wilson is 6-7 and is projected to run under 4.5.  He could be there at pick 101.  Who needs an additional TE with Wilson on the field.

 

Tangent Finis

 

I like this very much.  It really fits our needs.  If we can pick up a late first for Burns, we can go

1. Xavier

2. CB

3. C/G

4. Corley or Wilson

If we can move back a little in the second and pick up extra late 3rd, we may be able to get both Corley and Wilson.  With our needs, we really need to take advantage of what the draft is offering.

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I got no issue with this in theory...

but I think Burns played himself out of that wish coming true.  You not only have to give up a first for him....but then have to pay him on top of that.  I think too many teams would rather just spend that 1st rounder on a DE themselves for the cheap contract and hopes of getting a more well rounded edge player. 

Respectively disagree.  Teams picking in the late 20's are not in development mode.  They will be looking for a professional someone that can put them over the hump - especially if they see their window beginning to close.  Burns paired with another stud like Hutchinson or Von Miller could be just the ticket.  Looking at Buffalo, Detroit, maybe Miami.

I'd be shocked if we can't get a late first and a 2025 second for a borderline pro-bowler Edge.

I would do the following...

Trade Burns for a late 1st.  Draft WR.  Get an Edge in the top of the 2nd. Re-sign Luvu and extend Brown.

Then fix the OL....

Switch Icky and Christiansen.  Christensen is built for LT.  Icky is built for G. Stop fighting it.

Draft a C/G at the top of the 3rd.  Give him experience at RG this year, then move him to C next year.

Draft a TE at the top of the 4th.

Re-work Moton's deal as usual to clear space but don't spend it.  Roll it over until we are better and we have enough players worth spending it on.

Bryce is starting every game next year until he gets hurt.  This is how we should prepare...

• Trade Burns for a late first and get a speedy WR that can get a little separation.
• Draft a G/C at the top of the second so there might be an actual pocket to play from.
• Draft a pass-catching TE at the top of the 3rd to have an option in the middle of the field.
• Stay away from high priced Free Agents.

We will win 4 games and have a top 5 pick regardless of what we do.  But we have to be able to evaluate our most expensive investment.  

If we are scrappy competitive underdogs and Bryce plays well, then the rebuild continues with an eye toward defense in 2025.  If Bryce continues to struggle and we're getting blown out each week, you have to think about a QB in 2025.

16 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I picked the Ravens to win the SB.

I said we needed a #1 WR and told everyone Mingo and TMJ was not it.

Told everyone in the preseason Frank was going to be a bad HC.

 

Put some respect on my name!

I think we need to find out if Bryce is any good.  I know I'm in the minority, but I just don't think we know the answer.  Directionless back-stabbing coaching, constant injuries/changes on the offensive line, pedestrian play-calling, and sub-par WRs.  Plus the fact he was a rookie trying to catch up to a much different game.  He may never be anything special, but I'm not ready to draw that conclusion based on the mess we saw this year.  Let's fix his footwork, give him some time to get stronger, match him up with a more creative offensive coach, and see if anything is there.

Here's my to-do...

1. Trade Burns to Buffalo.  Buffalo is in win-now mode and Burns would be more helpful on the other side of Von Miller than anyone they could draft in the late 20's.  We could net a 2024 1st, 2025 2nd, and a 2024 5th and 6th.

2. Offense: Move icky inside and let BC play T.  Move on from the stench of Thomas, TMJ, Hurst, Sanders, and Chark.  If Corbett can play, keep him with Zavala and Mays as backups.  Re-sign Smith-Marsette.  Keep Thielen.  Keep Dalton.

3. Defense: Re-sign/extend Brown.  Re-sign Luvu, YGM, Hill, and Haynes.  Then hope Horn, Bell, Woods, Shaq, and Jackson can stay healthy. A difference-making edge rusher will have to wait for the 2025 draft.  This draft needs to be about the offense.

4. Free Agents: stay away! Grab whatever comp picks we can for Henderson, Chinn, Franklin, Shenault, Chark, etc.  Fill in gaps when they no longer count against comp pick formula.

5. Draft: 1 = WR.  2 = G/C. 3 = RB or TE.  4-6: LB, CB, DT, TE, etc.

2024 is going to be ugly.  We might win 4-5 games with better coaching, fewer injuries, and a little more talent around our QB, but that is probably the max. But this should allow us to determine if our high 2025 pick should be QB or Edge.   

Bottom line, I really don't care how many games we win in 2024 as long as we develop what we have, show energy and improvement, and carry over all our picks, a comp pick or two, and a large chunk of cap. 

6 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Whew boy did you open up a can of worms!  Okay, eating an elephant strategy...here I go.

#1-Trade Brian Burns for draft capital.  A 1st round this year and a 2nd next year bare minimum

#2-Extend Brown

#3- Re-sign Luvu (priority #1 FA)

#4- Other in-house FAs to re-sign REASONABLY (no particular order): Haynes, YGM, Hill, KGH, Williams

*If JJ wants to come back then we obviously re-sign him--but I doubt he does.

#5 Either move Chinn to LB or trade him before FA.

#6 Free agency:  WR (x2) a tier 1 and a tier 2, TE, OLB and CB

#7 Use that first rounder to take either a QB or WR.

#8 Draft a OLB, DL, CB, IOL and BPA

nice post.  I agree with almost everything and was just getting set to post.  Here's my to do...

1. Trade Burns for first and future second/third.

2. Extend Brown.

3. Re-sign Luvu, Hill, Franklin, Haynes, Willams.

4. Chinn, Henderson, YGM, all walk for future comp picks.  Important - let them become comp picks.  Do not try to sign a bunch of FAs.

5. Move to power running scheme.  Move icky inside with Christiansen outside.  Play action galore.

6. Draft WR in first.  We have to find some speed here.

7. Rest of draft is defense heavy - OLB in 2nd, ILB in 3rd, CB in 4th, DT and Center in 5th, TE in 6th.

When Christensen and Corbett come back, we should have a decent run-first offense that should keep us in most games.  We'll probably have lots of rookies starting on defense. Maybe we'll win 4-5 games and be eliminated in December instead of November.

In 2025, we'll have high first rounder, high picks in rounds 3-7, and at least a couple decent comp picks.  This is when we can decide if we need a different direction for QB and really start building out depth.

2 hours ago, WarPanthers89 said:

I’m all about hating on Tepper and Nicole for the dumpster fire they have created, but this entire post is reaching hard. She was just walking to prob go get some food or drinks lol. This is simply huddle drama.

You are violating the hive-mind.  You will be assimilated.

To do list...

1. Trade Burns for 1st and 2025 2nd.

2. 1st - WR (Xavier Worthy?) 2nd - OT (move Icky to G)  3rd - Center (bozeman is terrible) 4th - Best RB available.  Gotta give Bryce a chance with decent supporting cast.

In 2025, if bryce is still struggling and we are picking in top 5, gotta go QB.

Sorry to see Scot and Jon Snow leave, but don't blame them.   But I'm checking out too.  This place is not for us optimists/realists interested in constructive conversation.  

I may check in later in the season when the Panthers start putting some wins on the board to see if reason has been restored.  I expect 5-6 wins in November/December.  Until then, the impatient whiners posting and running things in here can continue to revel in their misery.