AU-panther

Who cares if he loses the team? At this point you are playing for draft position. Nothing you can realistically do is going to give this team a realistic chance of winning anything important this year.

There is no easy fix for this. Going to PJ won't fix it. Signing some midlevel FA won't fix it. You have to draft a guy and give him time to develop or sell the farm for an established guy. The worst part is you can't force it. We might not be in position to draft a guy you actually like next year or a quality FA QB might not come available. Maybe we have to wait 2 years. In the meantime you build the rest of your roster without wasting resources on players that won't help us when we finally do find our guy.

You are talking about a very specific scenario that really doesn't apply here.. What we spent on Teddy would have rolled over to this year. Even if you reach a point where its not rolling over you extend a core player early and use that cap space to basically pre pay a lot of his contract.

wrong Cap space rolls over. All of this money that we wasted on Sam and Teddy could have been used to help whatever QB we find in the future. Maybe one day we draaft a QB, that $50m would help improve an O-line alot.

If our QB did the same thing most people around here would be making the excuse that he was preventing the defender from going after the fumble.

He was keeping a defender from going after a fumble. I would hope my QB did the same.

I agree. People need to realize that sacks and pressures are QB stats as much as they are O-line stats. Not saying we don't need to improve our O-line, we do very badly, but the QB does bears a lot of the responsibility. Speaking of Teddy, do you think he would have done better, worse, or the same this year, instead of Sam? Our PPG were actually a little higher last year, with a defense that wasn't near as good. Often a really good defense makes your offense a little easier to play.

stats say otherwise his accuracy has always been terrible.

Of course they can, the only thing is the older you are the greater the chance you are already close to your maximum, but there is chance for growth both from technique and strength/flexibility. Everyone wanted to make fun of Mac's shirtless picture but in reality that was a plus. Its clear he has the potential to improve physically, if he was built like Cam and had his current velocity that would be concerning. Brady is probably a better athlete in his 40s than he was his 20s. I'm not saying he is going to work out and have a Josh Allen type of arm but its foolish to think he can't improve his velocity some. QBs are hard to evaluate, everyone likes to talk about ceilings and floors but its hard to quantify the traits that make that up. People are saying he would get killed behind our line because he can't scramble. Maybe does a better job of reading pressure and calling protections, maybe he gets the ball out quicker. Sam has all the tools in the world that you would want for a QB, as far as arm and mobility and size, but would you consider him to have a high ceiling? If a QB has terrible accuracy or processing is it possible for him to still have a high ceiling?

Good coaches tend to have good QBs....

I’m not an outlier guy myself but I think at times we do get hung up on arm strength a bit with QBs. Or maybe we don’t factor enough variables into the “ceiling” equation. What about decision making and accuracy? To be honest, I wasn’t a Jones guy myself, just makes you wonder.

They should have drafted a great OT....oh wait

Its amusing to listen to fans obsess over "ceilings" when Brady is running around with 6 rings.

If you spend 4m on some washed up vet is the fire really that much different? In reality both of us saw this coming, and I think we are both agree that the best of course of action is to draft a guy at some point. You would prefer a couple of more wins in the meantime, I would prefer more cap to use in the future.

what you are doing is what teams who spend their whole history going 8-8 do. Also the type of prospect you are waiting for in the draft doesn't go 10-15, they go top 10. Would we have been better off rolling with Grier 2 years ago and not going down the Teddy and Sam path? Yes. We probably would have picked 3rd this past draft and we would have took a QB and we would have been trying to develop him. I'm not saying he would have been a sure thing but we would have our plan at this point. Whether we draft a QB this year or next, an extra 2-3 wins this upcoming season is pointless that you might get from some temporary QB. Take your lumps, find your guy and use your resources wisely.

Is the following year going to be one? IF it is a good class then they are going to be drafted high and since you are retooling you won't be picking there anyway. Hence the vicious cycle of never finding a franchise QB. So at this rate you best luck is catching lightning in a bottle with a vet which the exact thing we just tried. So basically you want to spend just enough on the QB to make sure you don't get to draft one high on the years one is available in the top 10 but the years they will be available where you pick you don't feel they are good enough to pick?

Vilma might have watched the replay of the game in his prep and heard Steve say it. Either way its being overplayed by some on here. This idea that his 'hospital balls' are causing the WRs to quit is getting blown out of proportion. Its not overcomplicated. We are playing bad. WRs are playing worse than expected and Sam is playing bad, which was actually expected by a lot of people.

So we go 9-8 instead of 8-9? People have a bad habit of discounting money. If its for a QB that probably isn't really going to help you it doesn't matter if it is cheap relative to other QBs. Could you improve our guard position with that $5m you are going to waste on a journeyman QB? What helps that future QB, an extra win or two from a stop gap QB or spending that money on his O-line. What if you draft a guy? Sign Heinicke, keep Darnold as a back up and have a rookie? Our 1st goal should be to find a franchise QB. 2nd goal is to build the team to help that QB when we do find him.

I keep going back to the stat that PFF had listed during the summer. With a clean pocket he has historically been one of the most inaccurate QBs in the league. If your QB doesn't play well when things go right, that is a bad sign. Also that tends to be a very stable metric from year to year. So even if our O-line plays well, he still might not process the play well according to some. Even if he does process the play well he will make an accurate throw less often than almost any other QB. You put all of that together and that's not good. I think at times we are letting the O-line play, WR drops, and play calling distract us from the most important problem.

and he probably heard it from the broadcast the weak before. Here again things like this take a life of their own. Does Sam throw some passes that might expose his WRs to hits that he shouldn't? yes More than other QBs would? probably but we aren't losing because our WRs aren't trying hard because Sam has thrown some "hospital balls". We are losing because we aren't playing well, and that includes Sam and the WRs. People are overthinking things.

I agree with that. I actually thought Winston would have been a really good option at the time. I'm not talking about tanking as in tearing down the entire roster, I just don't want spend considerable resources on some journeyman vet QB. I would prefer to use Darnold for another year, since he is already paid for then pay another Teddy type of deal just to try and be competitive for the short term. I'm all for building the OL and the rest of the roster, I'm just not worried about finding the decent QB like you, here again that mindset is what leads to the situation we are in. Maybe we should say a decent QB for less than $2m.

You don't happen to have Sam's accuracy numbers for the year do you? Not his completion percentage but his acutally accuracy numbers. Historically he has been bad in that department and it feels the same this year. Everyone gets caught up in this narrative that he can't process, and yet there is probably some truth to this but its not that simple. I think sometimes the accuracy just isn't there. QB A is accurate 6/10 on third down and QB B is accurate 5/10. That extra accurate throw can be the difference in the WR getting the 1st down or not. That one 3rd down conversion can be the difference between an extra series staying alive and a team scoring an extra 7 points. You give us an extra 7 points a game we have a top 10 offense. Fans think in absolutes, Tom brady isn't accurate on every 3rd pass and Sam isn't inaccurate on every 3rd pass but instead its small percentages difference between them. Even if Sam processes better he still has to make the throws. Sam has actually thrown some decent short range balls this year. He throws a good slant usually. I'm guessing that is helping the YAC considerable.

I'm not opposed to building the roster while you wait to find your franchise QB but this idea of retooling and trying to stay competitive is actually what gets teams into trouble. Signing Teddy was the team trying to be competitive while it retooled. Signing Sam was the team trying to be competive white it retooled. They felt like he was closet to being good than one of the rookies. Also by trading him that freed up the first round pick to use on the rest of the roster to "retool" the team. We got greedy. Everyone wants to win sooner than later. You can say we can't afford to flounder but you really don't have a choice. If it was a choice every team would choose to be good. You either find a good QB or you don't, sometimes it takes awhile, but wasting resources on average QBs while you look is a waste of resources that hurts you when you actually do find your guy. I have zero desire to spend resources again on an average or below average QB this offseason. Either draft a guy or go cheap at the QB position and draft a guy the following year.

be careful with facts around here. Here is what happened. Our WRs have dropped an unusually high amount of passes, might just be standard deviation. Steve Smith made a comment about hospital balls, and now every fan is trying to create some narrative that all of this is connected. The team isn't losing because it has quit. Its losing because it isn't playing well at some very important positions.

attract a top tier QB talent? how often does that really happen. We need to quit looking for shortcuts. Most franchise QBs follow the same path. They play for the team that drafted them and they are drafted early, anything else is an exception and is what has got us to this point already. We need to find our Mahomes or Herbert or Burrow. Its not easy but its the best chance for sustained, long term success. Making the rest of you team better actually works counter to making that happen. I'm not saying force a QB draft pick, maybe we have to wait until the following year, but looking for a competent veteran can work against you. A lot of people thought Teddy was a competent veteran. Also people need to quit expecting immediate help in the draft at the QB position, unless you are picking first and there is a prospect like Manning or Luck there is always question marks about QBs. Of course Horn was safer than Fields, or Chase Young before Herbert, or all the players before Mahomes. You gamble and hope, and if it doesn't work you try again in a few years. I'm not saying pass on a great OT prospect for a terrible QB prospect but if that QB prospect is anywhere close you have to consider them because they are that important.