kungfoodude

Yeah but that isn't a fair comparison. You can't expect a 1st round QB to perform the same as a 7th round QB, almost regardless of the season. There are certainly outliers that exist but the long term statistics bear out that the success rate is higher for 1st round QB's. Considerably so as the rounds go lower. So Pickett, Willis, Ridder, Howell, Corral, etc.....that class is less likely to net a franchise QB or even good journeyman because it wasn't a good QB class and the opportunities will naturally be less. You might get a Geno Smith story or a Russell Wilson story but those are exceptional because....well....they are the exception.

Well considering only one went in the first round and most are riding the pine as 3rd round or lower guys, I don't think last year's class is a good example of that. If you go to the class before, that's probably a better argument. But Lawrence had a dreadful HC in his rookie year(the only one worse than Rhule), Lance didn't play anything but in spots(which would be the example you mention) and Fields struggled mightily on a team with a lot less talent and also a poor coach(now fired). Jones was successful with a far better coach but lesser talent. He is also possibly the lowest ceiling guy from that class. So, half of those cases included bad coaching. Not surprisingly, those two QB's are performing better in year two. Lance unfortunately was injured early so its hard to say how that will turn out. Jones is struggling with a bad coaching(in this case coordinator) situation now but was also the least talented of these guys.

Well Cleveland had and has ample talent from their years of drafting in higher positions. Now, not as much talent as they should have because they also flubbed that to a degree. However, PLENTY of excellent talent has gone through those doors during their 1999 and onward existence. Talent can get you only so far in the NFL. You need quality coaching, good management and good ownership as well. All those things need to be at least above average to put together a winning team and they need to good or great to be able to have extended periods of success and competitiveness. Now, do we have those other elements that will be able to take the talent we at least do have and mold a team? That's the question. I haven't seen very much evidence of that yet.

That can be the results, certainly. But it can also go the other way and you can have immediate success. Lots of factors involved there. Hence why I also said "good coach."

It isn't talent deficient at all. It's not talent rich but we have plenty of pieces to build on and plenty more we can lock in for a couple of more years to stabilize. Yesterday's game isn't the entire season. It's one game. We have seen these players(and coaches) for 9 games now. We know that there are very much talented players on this roster.

It isn't really relevant, TBH. We can take either course and turn this into a team capable of having a winning record. It will take continuous improvement to KEEP winning, so that has to happen, as well. But this idea that it's impossible to turn around our fortunes is ridiculous. My God, look at how terrible this division is for that matter. We can still win this division. That's how bad it is.

We actually have been rebuilding continuously since 2017. It isn't a process that is required to be restarted. We just keep to keep improving the roster and make good decisions with free agents(our own and others).

A good coach and a good QB can do precisely that. Did you see a path to the Eagles being undefeated? Did you see a path to the Giants success this year? This isn't a talent deficient team.

It shouldn't take 2 years to turn this into a winning team. It's been 5 years already. Despite what Tepper and Rhule's dumbasses think, it doesn't take 7 years to make a winning team in the NFL.

To be fair, Corral was also working with a bottom 5 OC. We have to at least consider that in the equation.

I definitely thought Baker was gonna be better than this.

Horn is a very good player, although the injuries are getting concerning. I think we MAY end up with the better player in Ekwonu(higher ceiling), so if he pans out I can forgive passing on Slater. If Fields pans out.....that will be a really tough pill to swallow.

I mean, I don't think one game is grounds to be taking a victory lap. I like Fields and wanted either him or Slater but I don't think I would call Justin a success yet. Hopefully so.

Only if we get to have a David Tepper PC on Monday.

I mean....it is kind of funny though.

Oh poo. Clicked on the wrong one. You are correct.

WTF. That's barely worth going for. Another carrier, maybe?

BPA isn't a set thing, IMO. Even people that say BPA mean within the framework of their needs. If you have a surefire franchise QB that gets injured and you end up with a top 10 pick, you wouldn't draft another franchise QB prospect for the sake of BPA. Some fans interpret that too literally.

Well during that span our scouting/GM has produced some very bad drafts and some middling lower round QB's(suspect Corral will be included in that). It hasn't been a complete loss, which it wasn't for the Browns either, they also netted plenty of talent over that span. But you do expect that when you are drafting highly as often as that. But, yes, that was my point about drafting the wrong QB's. You can fug up a lot of good picks chasing. You can make poor decisions in free agency chasing. You can rely on lower round picks incorrectly. We have checked a lot of those boxes in our post 2017 pursuit of a franchise QB. That's concerning. The turnover at coach and in the front office is also a concern. We have a lot of the elements of floundering like the Browns did for a very long time and arguably still are. Hence why I worry so heavily about Tepper. If he proves to be Haslam or worse.....we might be in for some very frustrating years ahead.

You know, ultimately I got what I wanted out of this season which was to get out from under Rhule's tenure. He was such a dark cloud over the entire franchise. No matter how the rest of the year shakes out, we are looking up.

It wouldn't be a big upset, I think the -3 to -3.5 line for the Bengals indicates that. I am not really sure what to think. It may come down to whether our D can hem up Burrow and we are banged up in the secondary too. I say a close victory by the Bengals, 27-24. I expect a good game.

This is an NFL forum. I am sure you are used to being perpetually confused but college homerism is how you end up drafting like Michael Jordan did for the Bobnets.

Spoken like someone who literally has no idea what they are talking about. During the 1999-2017 span Cleveland drafted a total of two QB's in the first round, Tim Couch(#1 overall in 1999) and Johnny Manziel(#22 overall in 2014). But that era was marked by repeated turnover at QB. Lower round draft picks, journeymen, roster discards, etc. If you actually expand that era(which would be somewhat fair) to include up to the present, that would net another likely bust QB in Baker Mayfield taken #1 overall in 2022. Regardless, it has been a roughly 18-22 year span of over 20 starting QB's. That's bad. It's also better through the first 5 years than our span has been from 2018-2022. We have started more QB's and had less team success.