d-dave

While we all love knee jerk reactions to things, I think rushing to conclusions is pretty short sighted. You can absolutely say that Bryce Young did not meet expectations. That's true and accurate. You can also say that he didn't have a lot of help. Bryce was sold to the NFL fanbase as a guy who didn't need the support because he was a play maker. He wasn't. That's fair. It's easy to look at the success of CJ Stroud and say "Why didn't we do that?!? Bryce is a turd!!!" But like most things in life, it's not so easy or useful to make fast decisions like that. Bryce was not helped by the Frankenstein System of Reich and Brown. His offensive line was not great. His Qb coaching was sub par. Basically, when you throw a doughnut in a port a john, it becomes just another piece of poo in that gross blue water. The 2023 Panthers SUCKED! Bad!! Now the question is, can Bryce be redeemed? Yes. If he gets the right coaching and system, and is taught how to be an NFL QB by his coaches, then we can really see what's up. Next year is going to be a cluster as well, as we work our way out of the porta potty world. I expect Bryce to be better. To improve in those fundamentals. To play with more poise and anticipation. If he has a repeat in 2024, then I think it's much more fair to call him a bust than right now. Remember, as much fan as it is kicking someone while they're down, he was the consensus #1 pick. If Houston had traded to 1, they would have selected him. Chill out, enjoy some football, and let's obsess over our next coaching staff and GM...=)

Bryce is defiantly safe for the 2024 season. This season sucked in about a million different ways. Honestly, waiting in line at the DMV would have probably be a more entertaining time than most of our games! That being said, Bryce was the top QB last draft. Regardless of how incredibly well Stroud has played this season, Young was the consensus. Honestly, what needs to happen to see Bryce improve is a more unified system. The idea of marrying McVay with Reich's spread was not great. We need well designed plays that give QBs answers instead of forcing Young to figure it out. That's what good offensive coaches do. That's going to be the biggest challenge: how do we take the players we have under contract (OL is power run, WRs are big and or slow, QB is small, TE is an afterthought, and Chubba is the best RB on the roster), and make a system that works for them. More than who has the fattest rolodex, I want the coach with the best plan for what we have offensively. And I want a coach who can lead the team.

I don't doubt that Scott was a likable guy in the organization. In pressers, he seemed like a good dude. But a good dude doesn't make you a quality GM. He's been in charge of adding and retaining talent to this team for three years and the results speak for themselves. He's not good at it. I think he would have been a good fit at as VP of Football Ops or something, looking at the big picture and dealing with Tepper more than having a day to day impact on the team. But I'm fine letting everything go with this regime. It's up to Tepper to prove he's learned something. The buck stops with him, right?

As much as I want to root for Dan Morgan, I think we need a full cleaned house. Everyone has to go. Sucks, but the stench has just been too thick and heavy this year. Just not good enough period.

Counter point: How are DJ Moore and CMC doing outside of Carolina? What did we do with the assets we got from them? While I don't want to pay Burns $30+ million a year, let's be careful what we wish for. Burns put out 8 sacks on a team that NEVER led. He never got to pin his ears back. His next best edge rusher this season was YGM. While Burns wasn't all world, he was the only remotely consistent pass rusher we have. Luvu has been a good interior pass rusher, but that was not his primary job this season. This entire season was a giant TURD of a season. No one is immune from the smell. But if we trade Burns or let him walk, don't be surprised if he plays well else where. We keep trading away great talent and we have a 2~15 record to show for it... Maybe, just maybe we try keeping a talented player.

I know some of y'all just want to trash Bryce because CJ Stroud looks to be the guy and you think we missed. I get it! You don't give up as much as we did for Bryce and cut him after a year. Look, he did plenty wrong, which is what you expect as a rookie. But the rest of the offense looked like crap plenty. Bryce gets another shot next year, regardless of what the fans think because of all the investment put into drafting him. Now if we don't see improvement in 2024, then by all mean, toss him. But this team was poorly built, despite being told we were one player away from making noise. It's going to depend on the next coach and staff. Sorry, but we're all going to have to wait and see.

I'm not going to argue was pretty much a shite game from Bryce, you don't invest what you did in him and move off after a single season. I know many of y'all are ready to draft ANYONE at 33, and I can't blame you for your frustrations. The reality is that many rookie QBs struggle. We were sold that Bryce was ready to be a great QB from the jump. It hasn't happened, and we're bitter. But we also sold the entire farm for Bryce. You can't change that. Before we determine if Bryce is a success or not, we need a GM, coach, and VP of Football ops. Maybe things will be different next season, maybe they won't. But we won't be drafting Bryce's replacement at 33. First round rookie QBs tend to have a long leash before they get yanked. We are in the Bryce Young experience for a good while longer.

It's going to be up to Ickey how good he becomes. Whoever that coach is, needs to challenge him to be great. I remember seeing/reading something along the lines of it's really up to Ickey how good he wants to be. He's got all the tools, but this season is part scheme (he's not a zone guy at OT); but a larger part is himself. He's got to put in the work. Hopefully year three we see a lot of growth from Ickey. If he's able to get better, it's only going to make the entire line better.

Man, what a fun game on Christmas Eve. I hate that we just ran out of time. Some of y'all are just miserable, and that's fine. Huddle gunna Huddle, bup bup bup? Sometimes, you have to just enjoy it. I'm disappointed in our defense, and the slow start from the offense. You can't do that. But man, the team fought back. You have to give them credit for that. We are still not a good team with too many holes all over the place. But we played hard, we were almost there. Bryce looked the part. DJ Chark had himself a game. The past two weeks the team has played much better. So I enjoyed it. Sucks to lose, but to feel the passion for the team again is great. I thought they were done after that 2nd GB TD, but they kept coming. That being said: this team is going to go through some massive changes and turnover next season. But I think more and more, Bryce is looking like he can be that guy. Feel free to disagree, I'm just a moron with a keyboard.

Again, why are we going to insist that we bring in a new HC but give them less control over their staff? I have a lot of respect for the Evero has done this season with the injuries and lack of talent for a 3-4 front. He's one of the top defensive coaches in the league, he's only 42, and he's got the chops for be a coach. That being said, you can suggest, but you can't force a DC onto a new coach, especially a first time coach. I think Tim Donnelly on 99.9 said it best: if you're an offensive coach, the DC needs to be your best friend. Someone you can trust, because their work is going to go on your record. I think Evero is a great DC, great coach, and looks the part of the HC. It won't be much longer before he gets a HC job.

Since Tepper bought the team, his worth has increased to like $16 BILLION. If he paid a coach $15 million per year, it would take 67 years before he ended up paying a single billion. I could give two poops what Tepper has to pay a coach. I have no problem with folks getting rich fleecing Tepper. Not my money, and it doesn't count on the cap. Fug it all!

Man what a year 2023 has been. As it all winds down, more than likely ending like a wet turd on carpet with the Panthers, I'd like to offer my best wishes to all huddlers this time of year. I've disagreed with plenty of folks on here across several forums, but I hope I never came across as mean or spiteful. Frankly, the world sucks. No matter which tribe your on, 2023 bent most of us over and took it's pound of flesh (or more). We've all experienced differing amounts of losses, personal, financial, sports wise, whatever. My most sincere wish is that all of you are able to find some peace, happiness, and joy at this end of year season. Merry Christmas! Hope you had a happy Hanukkah! Happy Kwanzaa! Happy Eid al-Fitr as Ramadan comes to a close! Happy Yule! Happy freakin' holidays! Be safe! Call for a ride if you drink too much. Be kind to others because you never know how much that might mean to someone!

It's a good read, and really reminds you that we need a new GM. For Burns: either keep him or trade him, stop messing around. If it looks like we were keeping him, should have paid him. If you weren't going to pay him, then trade him. Instead we're going to sit here with an unhappy Burns on a franchise tag instead of either moving him for picks or paying him his market value (not the huddle value). Piss or get off the pot Scott!

Win > Loss How hard is that? It was ugly AF, and I’m thrilled to have that winning feeling. I'm sorry some of y'all are unhappy we won. I’m sorry we didn’t make it pretty enough. I’ll take a win over 100 pretty losses. But that’s just me.

As soon as I saw beta male...I quit reading. All you have to do is listen to future incel middle school boys to figure out what this is about. The Andrew Tate nonsense is pathetic. I guess that means I'm some kind of kuck/beta but Tate is a loser, and folks who live and breath by his message are sad boys. It is a leadership thing. From the Top (Tepper) down (practice squad) the leadership is completely fugged. Because Tepper is impatient and thinks that football is like a hedge fund where quick turnaround are the norm. Tepper is the biggest, richest problem we have. We need Tepper to sit back and only look at the business side and hire a football president. Their job is to run the football side and separate Tepper from the on field team. Until Tepper steps back and allows the leaders in the locker room, the head coach, and GM to lead. But that's just me, an Andrew Tate ignorer. What do I know?

So lots of Short Kings on the huddle? While you can continue to debate his tools because they haven't shown well at all, you can't blame him for being drafted by the Panthers. Is it the NFL hype machine? The internet scouting machine? Some other machine I don't know about? Whatever it was, Bryce was hailed as a baby Mahomes. Not as big or physically talented, but smart, creative and effective. Bryce was widely considered the best Qb in the draft and overall number 1 lock, no matter who took him. Bryce himself seems super nice and accountable, I don't think he was trying to game the system to hoodwink a team. So no one was robbed. If Bryce ultimately fails, that's just the cost of doing business in the NFL. You win some picks, you lose some. What did the 49ers do when they realized the QB they needed all along in Purdy not the guy they traded the farm for? They cut their loses and moved on. Bryce needs another year to prove it. This team is a poo show. I genuinely think he's doing the best that he can. There's only so much polishing a turd you can do before you're covered in it. If Trey Lance and Zach Wilson get multiple chances to prove they could be the guy, you got give Bryce a chance with a halfway decent coaching staff and scheme. You put any other rookie or young QB here, it's a poo show still. How would CJ do here? Purdy? Love? Tua? You can't tell me that they would be winning 5 much less 10 games this season with this scheme and staff.

What a GREAT interview. I love Cam Newton! While I don't always agree with him, he's always 100% authentic. When he said he would love to be President of Football...I was like, YES! YES! 100 times YES!!! Look, Cam is very polarizing in the media and fan base (which he admits was purposeful), but he also has super high emotional intelligence and is fantastic at forging interpersonal relationships. I think Cam would actually be really great in keeping the football side of things separate from Tepper. Cam is the alpha dog in franchise history. I mean, sure there's a LOT of risk, but so is allowing Tepper full access to meddling with his football team... Maybe I'm just really tired but man, that sounds like such a GREAT idea!!!

Don't worry, I'm sure the Teppers can do that.... =P Or is that too soon for a bad joke? Honestly, who knows? How many HCs can also be effective play caller? How many play callers have the ability to lead? So..??? I have no clue! Personally: I want the Panthers to get the best HC, not smartest offensive brain. We need someone to lead the team, and then we can work with the rest.

This is why a Frank Smith of Miami makes sense if we're going for an offensive coach. Lots of motion, effective game planning/use of formations, and works with a physically limited yet accurate QB. It's up to the new GM and coach to figure out an OL that can work for that kind of offense. I think we need more dancing bears than maulers for something resembling the Miami offense. We'll also need legit playmaking WRs. Anyone know if Hill is a FA? Ha ha...

I think the main thing to remember about any testing done for the NFL is that it's only there to confirm an observation. A guy looks fast on film? Then he's probably fast on the track. If not, figure out why. Bryce does have a lot of gifts like his anticipation, accuracy and mindset. BUT the problem he's facing now is that he's not physically capable of solving problems with his body. Again, not everyone can be Big Ben or Cam Newton who are hard to take down based on their size alone. Not everyone can be as fast as Lamar Jackson. Some QBs have very special physical traits which allow them to mitigate offensive problems. Look at many of the "cerebral" QBs. Rodgers is a good athlete, but he still goes down (when his Achilles tendon isn't broken) when the pocket collapses. Joe Burrow? Good athlete but he can't carry a team on his back like a physical freak. Mahomes is a very good athlete that can extended plays, but he still needs support to dominate. You can go on, but the truth is MOST qbs need help. The S2 is just a test. It's designed to see how well a subject can handle multiple stimuli at the same time and process the information. That's an important part of being a QB for sure, but it's not the end all/be all. I think most of the NFL was still probably Bryce 1 / CJ 2 before and after the test based on their college resumes. The S2 was just more data that the media ran away with like wonderlic scores. What does it all mean in the grand scheme of things? Either a guy can play or they can't. Right now, CJ is showing he can. I still hold out hope for Bryce with a new staff to actually develop him. But if Bryce fails again, then he will join the long list of QBs with great college careers and poor NFL careers. That's why the draft is always a crap shoot.

Honestly, I don't care if Dalton does come in and play like the great vintage Andy Dalton. So what? He's not the future. Instead, the Panthers need to figure out if Bryce is the future. Of course Dalton would look great if he came in, that whole backup QB bump and the fact he's got 13 years more experience than Bryce. Duh. So it would then make sense for Bryce to get more experience to be better, right? It's going to be up to the next coach and GM to figure out if Young can be a NFL QB or not. Unless Tepper continues to interfere with football ops, which has been a disaster since day 1. The team isn't moving on from Bryce Young until 2025 at the earliest. You don't sell the farm for Bryce only to turn around in 12 months for a new rookie QB, a round 2 QB at that.

I don't think it's fair to cast a rash judgement of Bryce being a bust forever. This offense is a poo show. Bryce has gotten worse and is developing bad habits. Bryce is making too many mistakes. There's not shortage of criticism, no shortage of viable reasons to call him bust worthy, but I don't think it's right to roll a rookie this quickly. Some of y'all feel strongly otherwise, and that's fine for you. Bryce needs an outlet. Would Mahommes be as good without Kelce? What about Cam without Olsen? Brees had Jimmy Graham for his prime years. When you look at many good QBs, you see they have a play maker who they can get the ball to when they need it. I think Cam called it HBO (help a brother out). The offensive scheme is utter garbage. The oline can't pass block well. While they ran block very well, when it was time to pass the ball, they were embarrassed. We don't have a good WR right now. How well can they be judged in this poo scheme? Our RBs looks like RBs, nothing special. I love how hard Chubba is running right now, but he's replicable. The QB is being asked to do more with less than most QBs in the league. Consider as well Bryce's physical limitations. He's not a physical freak like Cam was, nor does he have the ideal build to truck a LB. He's a small guy, but the NFL was willing to bet on him to be the outlier that makes it. How do we help Bryce's development? Get him an outlet. Is it a TE a la Olsen? A WR like how the Bills got Diggs for Allen? Bryce doesn't have anyone he can ask to bail him out. Theilen is too old at this point. You can't change the past, and we HAVE to get Bryce some help from a system perspective as well as an outlet who can be open.

While it's easy to do, let's not compare Stroud to Young's rookie season. A quick comparison: Head Coach: Demeco Ryans vs. Frank Reich/Chris Tabor OC: Bobby Slowick versus Thomas Brown LT: Laremy Tunsil versus Icky Ekwonu Skill Positions: .... I don't have time to type all of that.... You can't help where you're drafted. We all thought (and a lot of the media) that Young was drafted into a great situation where he could find success. Whoops, missed that one, EVERYBODY (including me). I get that people like to look and see how green the grass is, if Bryce had been drafted to Houston, he'd probably be playing similarly to the way Stroud has. Stroud would look a lot like Bryce due to the constant hits, lack of weapons, poor play calling and play design. It doesn't matter who wears the jersey, the results will be the same. That being said, since Tepper is calling all the shots, he needs to protect his investment and pull Bryce. Let Dalton play. Bryce is only picking up bad habits and extra shots without the improvement. Time to invest in the future and let the Red Rifle play.

Yep. I'd have us a fire sale at the end of the year. Burns is still worth a first. His talent is undeniable, and a fresh start for him would go a long way to seeing him play to his potential. You see it all the time where prime pash rushers still get insane value, even in a down year. You've seen lesser players get more value than a 1st for Burns. Derrick Brown is the only untouchable IMO. Dude is a beast. The rest are fair game, even Bryce if the new regime wants to get their own QB. Then, with a new and hopefully better regime, we can restock and rebuild our talent level. Get a few more draft picks from players like Burns or Luvu (maybe Horn), and reset. I have no idea what will happen.

Can we all do a big "No Duh!" Typically, when you're team sucks, everyone gets fired. Thomas Brown seems like a good, serious football guy, but he doesn't have to chops to be a NFL offensive coordinator right now. Best of luck to him in the future. This team stinks. His work speaks for itself.