SCO96

23 hours ago, Camp Fodder said:

Looks like a Scott Fitterer draft

All of us were upset (and a bit embarrassed) to be to have the worst team/record in the NFL and head into the 2024 season without a first round draft choice after picking #1 last season. 

Now, we have the first pick in the 2nd round and people are actually in favor of trading down for more lesser picks. First round caliber talents are going to fall into the 2nd round....and we are not going to have to pay them a first round contract. 

Why on earth would you move down? I could see doing so if we had a stacked roster and was not in need of an immediate starter from this draft. That's not the case. Our poor drafts this decade resulted in Carolina having the least talented roster in the NFL last year. We should come out of this draft with starters with those first 2 draft choices. To be frank, even out first choice in round 3 should make a significant contribution to the team, even if he doesn't start immediately.

Until Morgan and the rest of the FO proves that they are sloid talent evaluators, they should take the bpa. On paper we have done a great job addressing a lot of holes via FA. No need to get cute with trade dowsn.

7 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I am going out on a limb here....First round teams that are likely to select a WR:

• Arizona
• Baltimore
• Buffalo
• Cleveland
• Kansas City
• LA Chargers
• N Y Giants

 WR is believed to be their #1 need.

WR is also the Panthers' #1 Need--so if we take a WR at #33, it is possible that we are spending our first and most valuable draft pick on the ninth best WR.  Yikes.

  That means WR is the #1 need for 8 teams, according to Mock Draft Database.  Another 9 teams have WR listed as their second need, so if we don't take the ninth best WR (hypothetically) at 33 or 36, we could be taking the 18th best WR at pick #65.   That means that during the first 64 picks, 17 Wide Receivers will be chosen or considered carefully.  (Hypothetically speaking here--could be less, and probably will be).

 

 

 

 

On the surface that may sound bad. But, with the exception of our recently acquired pick from Pittsburgh, the 9th best receiver in the draft may still be better than anyone currently on our roster. 

On the flip side, because so many receivers are projected to go in the first, a first round talent is likely going to fall to us at some other position of need. We may be able to wait until #39 to grab a WR or even later as you pointed out. The O-line is already significantly better so I doubt we're taking an O-lineman at 33 or 39. 

No matter what we decide to do, if we don't come away with 2 (and arguably 3) solid starters after day 2 then this draft will end up being a massive disappointment.

This is off topic a bit, but I’ll toss it out there. Rattler made some nice throws in those clips. If he’s on the board in the 4th (or even the 5th) should we roll the dice? 

He’s got a better arm than Bryce Young. He definitely has chemistry with Leggette. If we did take Leggette in round 2, I think it would be hard to pass on Rattler if he’s still on the draft board late on day 3. Thoughts?

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

and another thing, did he work with geno and bakers footwork or just install a scheme that benefited their skill set?  He seems to be taking a poo ton of credit for a lot of things

If only one of the above is true, I still think that's commendable. Our coaching staff doesn't appear to have done either for Bryce during the 2023 season.

We're all hoping for the best. But, if Bryce is plays like he did last season, do you guys think Tepper would just face reality and go into 2025 knowing that still need a franchise QB?

5 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

If we draft Legette with one of our second rounds picks, I’d try to trade Mingo for a 3rd. 

Based on what he did last season (or didn't do last season), I don't think any team in the NFL would give you a 3rd for Mingo. I hate to say it, but you can probably be able to find a better WR in the 3rd round this year. If I were a GM, I wouldn't trade anything for him.

1 hour ago, Tbe said:

Mingo was a mistake.

If he doesn't show up and show out this season all of us are going to have to agree with you. I do want to see how he does in the new scheme before I write him off as a bust.

21 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

And therein lays the hope (or curse), if there is any.  Bryce will have to re-sign with the Panthers on a cap friendly deal.  Any other team will see and understand what the Panthers had to do to build a system around him, and the cost incurred.  He will be a special situation QB, for the right system only.  Who will want to sign him for Josh Allen money?  He won’t even get Tua money.  
 

Point guard.

These 2nd QB contracts have got out of hand. Every QB isn't worth $40 million. The Giants were crazy to give Daniel Jones all of the money.

If Bryce gets better, but doesn't become elite QB over the next 2-3 seasons, then you need to start negotiating with him before he hits his 5th year...preferably after year 3. You let him know that we can't afford to get you a $5o mil deal and keep the rest of the talent around you. If you realize that Bryce wants more than he's worth you draft a guy high in the draft before the 5th year and let him hit the market. Unless he's become a stud by the end of year 5, he's going to realize that he isn't going to get a $50 mil deal from another team.

Bryce seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He may realize that he needs to stay in Carolina to have the best chance to succeed in the NFL.

2 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

But if the right player falls out of the first and it's not someone we want/need, let's get some teams into a bidding war, I can see some teams putting out a great offer for it if they want to move up for a QB and don't want to get jumped.

My ideal would be someone's 2024 2nd and 2025 1st for 33 and then depending how far that fall is in the 2nd, a 4th or 5th rounder.

Maybe I'm in the minority here. But, if I were a GM, there is NO WAY I'd trade away a 1st round pick in next year's draft class for a 2nd round pick in the current year. That's the type of deal Marty Hurney would make and have all of us ready to throw shoes at the television on draft night.

We didn't have 1st round selections in 2009 or 2010. Hurney was so desperate to get "his guy" that he would trade away a first in future years to nab a JAG in the 2nd round of the present draft. I seem to recall us doing that one year to move up to select the great "Everette Brown" at DE in 2009. We also didn't have a pick in 2010 until #48 when we chose Jimmy Clausen. We had traded away our round 1 pick in 2010 prior to the draft night.

The scenario you laid out is might work if you were dealing with an inept GM (i.e. Hurney). No one with a rational mind would consider such a move unless the GM realized team roster was so stacked that a #1 pick might not be able to crack the starting lineup for some time. Then, I could see trading down a bit to pick up some additional choices to build solid depth at each position. Other than that, use those picks to get the best player. You can never have too much talent on a football team.

Keep the picks. I wouldn't want to give one away even for a first round selection in 2025.

This is a good draft in terms of talent for the first 3 rounds. We've already improved our team thru the first week in free agency. We're almost assured of getting some 1st round caliber players who slip into round 2 with the 33rd and 39th selections. We also have the first pick in round 3 (#65).

If we choose wisely, getting 3 of the top players between 1-65 almost offsets not having a first round selection this year...especially if they turn out to be quality starters.

Question(s) guys.

If Johnson comes in do you think he immediately becomes our #1?

Does this effectively make Theilan our slot WR (#2 or #3)?

What role does Mingo play?

Do we still make drafting a WR our top priority in round 2? Or do we focus on another need like DB, LB, C, S, DL, or TE?

1 hour ago, scratched said:

So if a guy like Brock Bowers is there at 16 or 17, you wouldnt give up both 2nds? Or Adonai, Verse or Chop Robinson around 20? Maybe we could package 33 and a next years 2nd, or this years 3rd ? Either way, I think we try and get into the middle of the 1st. 

Gotta agree with Jon Snow on this one. Our current roster is terrible even with the two upgrades at guard. You can make an argument that the Panthers are weak at EVERY position on the team except our 2024 starting guards,  1 DT spot (D. Brown) and possibly RT. We have 2 picks inside the top 40 and the first pick in round 3 (#65). If we don't come away with at least two starters with those picks then the 2024 draft will be another disaster.

To be honest, we really should come away with 3 starters. If we picked the right WR, LB, DB or DE I don't how they couldn't start or at least play significant minutes given the lack of talent currently on our roster.

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

If we take OL WR CB or Edge in the first, I will understand.

If we take a long snapper, K, P, TE, or RB in the first, I will be sending Morgan an angry letter--that you can be sure of.
 

As CSX pointed out we don't have a first round pick.

I'm definitely on board with taking OL or WR @ #33. I do disagree with your Take on TE. I can see getting upset if we took a JAG. If we could find a Kelce, LaPorta,  or Kittles type talent then I could understand why the FO would consider it.

A solid TE acts a security blanket on 3rd an short.

Our QB doesn't have the strongest arm. A solid TE can work the intermediate area of the field where Bryce is more effective.

A solid TE is usually a scoring threat in the redzone.

A solid TE usually helps the running game.

If he could find a TE who could catch 70-75 passes, score 6-8 TDs, and go over 800 yards for the season he would be well worth the 33rd pick of the draft. 

4 hours ago, UNCrules2187 said:

We tried the homegrown route with WRs many times and the only real one we hit on since Smitty we traded away.

Look at all the WR busts or nonfactors we've drafted in the first 3 rounds since we hit on Smitty (leaving out Mingo because it's too early to tell but early returns were pretty meh):

• Terrace Marshall (2nd round)
• Curtis Samuel (2nd round)
• Devin Funchess (2nd round)
• Kelvin Benjamin (1st round)
• Brandon LaFell (3rd round)
• Armanti Edwards (3rd round)
• Dwyane Jarrett (2nd round)
• Keary Colbert (2nd round) 

The above list of players is an example of why I have no faith in the Panther scouting department. That's a lot of WRs to miss on, especially that high in the draft (rounds 1-3). Our TE selections haven't been any better. The two best TEs to play for our organization (Wesley Walls and Greg Olsen) were not drafted by the Panthers. Outside of those 2 guys, I can't think of another TE drafted by the Panther who ever became an impact player. DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart were good running backs. How many other good RB's have we drafted besides those two and CMC? NOTE: Deshawn Foster gets an honorable shout out, but injuries derailed his promising career.

For years I've wondered if our poor drafts in general are due to poor talent evaluation from the scouts. I'd love to see how our draft board compares to the other teams around the NFL. I'm hoping things will improve with Dan Morgan as the GM. I think a lot of former players are better at talent evaluation when they work in the front office (in any capacity).

1 hour ago, 3838 said:

So... with Bryce having a window of 2.7 sec do we go for "deep threat speedsters" or someone that has a "knack for getting open" ( a McConkey type) at WR position?

I think every football fan loves to see their team go deep with the long ball.

That said, we have a QB with a questionable arm and a below average o-line protecting him. I'd gladly settle for a WR who can get open quickly, help move the chains, and increase our YAC stat (which had to be near the bottom of the league in 2023). A receiving threat like that would open up things for everyone else because defenses would then have to adapt their game plans to deal with him. Honestly, I'd be excited if we took a TE who could get open on a regular basis and be a scoring threat in the red zone. 

Any receiver who can improve Bryce's 5.5 yards per attempt and 179.8 yards per game average and increase his 11 TD passes would be a welcome addition. 

2 hours ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

The Panthers must be kicking themselves for letting him go....see what I did there? I'll see myself out...

You're so "punny"! 

Do you get it, "punny"? 

32 minutes ago, CRA said:

he was picked dead last in the 7th round and this is his first season as the starting QB.  He is getting paid 2 peanuts and a cracker jack.  I don't care what the Skip Bayless type shows want to talk about.    If you want to make a long list of why they lost that game.....he isn't one of the top subjects/reasons.  And that's who you are spending your time talking about and fixated on. 

Brock Purdy has and continues to overachieve.  He isn't why they lost the Super Bowl.  The folks around him turning it over, missing kicks, etc. are why they lost.  

YES, the team around him is why they made the Super Bowl.  And they are the ones who lost it and didn't get it done.  

 

 

Good post. 

Shanahan didn't run the ball enough in the 2nd half.

The O-line had several critical penalties that were absolute drive killers for the 49ers.

The punt team muffed a kick that led to a TD one play later and a massive momentum shift.

 CMC fumbled in the red zone on the first drive of the game.

The Kicker missed an extra point. 

All of the above were the major reasons for the loss. I don't care how talented team is or who is behind center, you can't make those types of mistakes against a Mahomes/Reid team in the playoffs and expect to win a close game down the stretch. 

Once in the 4th quarter, and Once in the OT Brock Purdy walked off the field with his team leading the game and both times the defense failed to hold up on their end.

But, a lot of people insist that Purdy should have won the game because of his stocked roster. If the stocked roster makes mistakes or fails to make impact plays how is that a reflection of Purdy?

Most of us agree that Purdy didn't play lights out last night, but he wasn't terrible. However, there is one thing he is going to have to do going forward. He's going to have to learn how to play off script when things breakdown or when the game plan isn't working. Shanahan, as someone pointed out, has had double digit lead in all 3 of his SB loses...with 3 different QB's. A lot of the blame has to fall on him. Purdy will probably end up having to carry his coach instead of the other way around if the 49ers are going to get over the hump and win a SB.

17 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Really surprised no one has been calling out Wilks for playing 5 DBs off the ball on KC's final drive. After they converted the 4th and 1 MVS caught a 3 yard pass, broke a tackle going backwards and ended up losing 3 yards. Instead of playing up in the WRs faces like they were doing all game he had ALL of his DBs 5+ yards back off the ball allowing easy completions for Mahomes and Co. to go right down the field. It doesn't surprise me it fits Wilks's conservative nature and further reinforces why I'm glad we didn't choose him for a HC. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fired for that last drive and the overall struggles the 49ers defense had this season.

That loose coverage resulted in several plays where KC had guys running wide open downfield on crossing routes during critical moments of the game. Overall, I think the 49ers gave a solid effort, but they didn't come thru when the game was on the line.

23 minutes ago, frankw said:

Momentum is a real thing. The Niners had all the momentum throughout most of the first half. They peaked early like I noticed.

Then in the 3rd quarter SF gave their best offensive weapon 2 touches. This combined with the muffed punt changed the entire complexion of the game.

24 minutes ago, frankw said:

I would not say the defense didn't make stops though. They played pretty damn stout considering they were up against a 3 time champion.

I agree to a point. But, when they had chance to prevent a tie in the 4th quarter they didn't. When they had a chance to prevent a game winning TD or game tying FG in overtime they failed again, despite the fact that the defense had plenty of time to rest due to the brake between regulation and OT...and the fact that the 49er FG drive took over 8 minutes off of the OT play clock.

27 minutes ago, frankw said:

I honestly don't even fault the defense that much for the final drive against Mahomes. The Niners received the ball first. That field goal was the final nail.

I don't agree with your reasoning on this one. If the 49ers have an elite defense it isn't unreasonable to expect them to keep a team off of the scoreboard in OT to win the game...or at the minimum hold them to 3 and prolong the game. Nope, they let the Chiefs march right down the field and get a TD. 

30 minutes ago, frankw said:

Also as others are noting. Coaching overall for the Chiefs was better down the stretch.

Bingo.

Shanahan did a worse job play calling down the stretch and scheming his big play guys open than Reid.  Deebo had 6 touched last night (passing and receiving combined). George Kittle caught 2 passes for 4 yards. Elijah Mitchell had 2 carries for 8 yards.

 Spagnola did a better job neutralizing his opponent in the 2nd half than Wilkes. The KC defense only gave up 3 scores after halftime (including OT)despite not getting any turnovers (I'm not counting the punt which was a special teams turnover caused by a fluke play). The SF defense gave up 2 TDs and 2 FG's for a total of 4 scores.

The coaching played a huge part in the loss which is why I don't see why someone want to pin the loss largely on Purdy.

56 minutes ago, frankw said:

The defense is stacked. He has generational talent on both sides of the ball. When they kicked that FG in overtime it was a wrap. Your QB has to get you into the end zone.

Or, maybe the Niners' highly touted defense needs to make a stop when it counts. If your team can't stop a team from getting game tying or game winning drives with the game on the line, can your really argue that its "stacked" or "elite"?

After halftime it seemed like every time the Chiefs needed to score they did. The KC had guys running wide open in the 2nd half. Even Romo commented on how easy those zone coverages were being exploited.

17 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Its not even hating anymore. Everyone knows the 49ers roster is elite. Like damn how much more does he need?

 

It would be unfair if you gave any elite QB that 49ers roster. Purdy has to close the deal if you want to be elite. Can you imagine if Cam had those weapons in his prime?

 

Dude made a SB with Olsen and trash WRs.

Purdy is a 2nd year player drafted in the 7th round. He was forced to come in and start in 2022 after Trey Lance (a first round pick) got hurt and never relinquished the job. 2023 was the first time Purdy started a complete 17 game season. Even the great Patrick Mahomes sat the bench during his rookie year. 

I blame this loss largely on KC winning the coaching battle in the 2nd half. If Reid had been coaching that Niners offense with Purdy behind center last night I'm sure he would have dialed up some plays to get Deebo and Kittles more involved. Neither guy had a "major impact" in the SB and it ended up hurting SF in the end.

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Doesn't really matter how many backs Shanahan has on the roster if he continues to abandon the run.

Agreed. But, I don't think Shanahan would abandon the run as much if he had 2 beasts to hand the ball too.

Just now, frankw said:

You guys are going to have to accept this fantasy of McCaffrey winning a Super Bowl on his own isn't going to happen.

No one does it alone.

I actually think Shanahan needs to draft a big back to come in spell MaCaffrey during the game and to use in short yardage situations. Their backup RB is ok, but I think SF could continue to run effectively with CMC on the bench if they could find 6ft+/225lb+ back in the middle rounds of the draft to complement MaCaffrey.

If Shanahan had one of those last night he would have a much better shot at winning that game.

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

Crazy people are still clinging to the narrative that if Shanahan force fed McCaffrey even more they definitely would have won. He had 30 touches already.

Your QB has to get the job done. It was always Purdy vs Mahomes.

MaCaffrey had about 160 total yards in the game. He scored a TD and led his team in rushing and passing yards. Yet, CMC only had 2 touches in the 3rd quarter...the quarter that saw KC get back into the game after the 49er offense stalled and the special teams muffled the punt that resulted in a go ahead TD one play later.