KSpan

21 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Yeah, it did. Check out pages 84,85,86

There were a couple of sarcastic jokes that are tossed out at any number of players on any given Sunday and not a single post "cheered" an injury. Hell, only one poster reacted with what could be construed as any kind of positivity and even then it could be argued it wasn't, meaning it definitely wasn't "cheering". Saying otherwise is pure melodrama.

1 hour ago, NAS said:

It was clearly tripping, BY had spun put and the defender stuck his leg out tripping him and studs doen on his ankle.

48 minutes ago, Manna said:

I’m trying to think about how this could happen without it being intentional. 

 

my wife goes: don’t you hate BY?

Me: yes, but if anything dirty is done to my team imma flip 

You guys can't be serious. He is is a normal running stride trying to catch a QB that is quickly spinning.

1 hour ago, ChuckWag78 said:

Let's not forget he is on an absolutely STACKED d line. Good for Burns, but you can't say he would be putting up these numbers here. 

Bingo. Burns is very good, no question, but he is a complimentary piece.

4 hours ago, NAS said:

Did you watch the Broncos vs Jets?

1 hour ago, KSpan said:

A good bit of it, yes. Denver couldn't get out of their own way for 2.5 quarters and then had an outlier explosion of good fortune that some folks swear was a sign that God/fate/Demaryius Thomas himself from beyond the grave intervened because they scored 33 points and DT was 33 when he died.

Whoops, had Broncos/Giants on the brain and misread.

No, I did not watch that game. However, it was international, and international games don't count for much IMO in terms of assessing a team. They are frequently weird/wonky.

3 hours ago, NAS said:

Did you watch the Broncos vs Jets?

A good bit of it, yes. Denver couldn't get out of their own way for 2.5 quarters and then had an outlier explosion of good fortune that some folks swear was a sign that God/fate/Demaryius Thomas himself from beyond the grave intervened because they scored 33 points and DT was 33 when he died.

20 minutes ago, thunderraiden said:

Not many teams have the defense of the Jets.

Which doesn't change the sentiment at all. Hell, the game was two Tyrod Taylor missed gimmes from being tied.

18 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Who would you replace him with?

Not our job to figure that out, and not a valid reason/excuse to do nothing.

1 minute ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I see why Tyrod hasn't played over anyone. Its a talent issue. These throws are lackluster. 

Fixed it.

Pretty sure that should be roughing.

It's saying something when you're so bad that it makes Tyrod Taylor seem dynamic and high-energy.

So glad someone is finally thinking about the concerts in Charlotte.

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

Here's your old days.

Same stuff.  Criticizing how Zod manages, how everyone here is a pre-teen.  

We're all Peter Panned.  Locked in a self-cycling bubble.

Oh absolutely. The vitriol and melodrama back when Carolina lost to Buffalo in 2013, as one example, was over the top.

5 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

Agreed with all but this line. There are those who have their predictive beliefs and what reality to play out in perfect alignment. 

I daresay that for the vast majority, 'wanting him to fail' simply means that they've seen enough and want whatever needs to happen in order to move on... to happen. Few, if any, are actively rooting for him personally to suck. Bryce just happens to be the guy that currently hasn't gotten it done/shown it, like Darnold before him, and Teddy before him, etc.

9 hours ago, fieryprophet said:

What's up gents, the OGs remember me, the guy who single-handedly gave the Panthers the greatest uniform in history moniker. Not too long after that I got involved with Pro Football Focus (pre-Collinsworth acquisition) and ended up taking backseat here to preserve some objectivity. But from a distance I noticed a lot.

After the end of the Cam era this place devolved into the most un-fun, petty, negative cesspool of whining and bitching that has ever graced the internet. The worst part of it all is that the level of discussion turned into the most ill-informed, hot-take, unnuanced crap, rife with people talking out of their posteriors as if they have any clue about what they are watching. Once you get into the professional side of the sport and actual film rooms, you start to understand there's an absurd number of moving parts to pretty much every snap and the details you are privy to are truly only half the picture.

The absolute most important thing I learned from being part of professional level football analysis is that quarterbacking is literally the most intricate and difficult position in all of professional sports, and that the NFL itself is struggling to develop any workable model that allows them to understand what makes one succeed vs what makes one fail. Because of this paradox it has also made the quarterback position itself grossly overvalued from a fan and media standpoint, creating an absurd fixation on the results delivered by a single player who has to rely on the contributions of everyone around them. This also drives the dreaded inflation of QB salaries that inevitably cause even elite teams to lose key talent all to pour cash into the one player supposed to be able to single-handedly elevate the entire team (and defense and special teams and coaching and ownership by some mysterious proxy), yet without those same players even talented teams can wander the wilderness searching for the right guy to take advantage of their talent window.

The discussions the last few years around Bryce has personified this insanity, as this board has devolved into some sort of electronic civil war between the hyperbolic Young supporters and the vitriolic Bryce haters. The reality, like practically everything in this world, is somewhere in the middle. He has traits that can absolutely elevate a team with creativity, play recognition, off-arm angle throws, mental toughness, etc. He's also physically limited, with mostly "good-enough" qualities for most situations that a professional quarterback is asked to do, and will never be an overpowering physical force like pre-injury Cam. But "good-enough" physicality represents a large majority of championship-winning quarterbacks, even in the modern era. There's a reason the corpse of Peyton Manning took the chip from elite physical specimen Cam, because the team surrounding him was talented enough to get him there, while we all know Cam was the driving force of that 2015 team. That's no knock on him, that's just how the game of football tends to work: the more complete team usually wins.

The summary is this: if this team lives or dies solely on the performance of its quarterback, then it is absolutely a paper tiger even if he plays brilliantly week in and out. There are no superheroes in this sport, there are only conduits that proxy the collective efforts of much of the team around them. And no one alive can tell you how the position is played perfectly, it's all a confluence of circumstance and what unique collection of traits each player brings to the position, which can never be truly recreated season after season, even for the same player on the same team.

If this place remains a raging hellscape of idiotic hot takes I will happily remove myself again and do something more productive for yet another decade, but maybe's there hope that we can all get back to the old adage, and keep pounding.

I'm sorry, but "good-enough" physicality absolutely does not represent majority of championship-winning QBs since the rules change in 2004 or so, which is all that is relevant in this conversation about the modern NFL. Unless you want to back that up with some actual data, such a comment in and of itself seems an idiotic hot take, to use your own words. There is a reason that the same elite QBs dominate for decades at a time and those guys are absolutely above average/top tier in terms of physical capabilities. even the one-offs like Flacco, Goff, and Stafford have at least one top-tier physical trait and it's typically arm strength.

Now, that doesn't mean that elite physical tools automatically equal championships. Absolutely not, and the guys that have the physical AND mental tools to set them apart are few and far between. But it does mean that a team has a dimension of capability that is a tangible advantage in today's NFL. I will die on the hill that Brees's lack of arm strength is a big reason why the Saints were never able to reliably get back over the hump for an entire decade despite racking up ludicrous regular season stats - they simply could not capitalize on that extra dimension, overcome adversity vs the highest competition, and exploit opportunities downfield that other QBs in similar circumstances could do. 

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

 I bet if Teddy was still here today.....how much you disliked bringing him in would be talked about more and differently. 

 

My god, bringing in Teddy was one of the most limp, milquetoast moves that the franchise could have made in that scenario and just went to show how out of touch Rhule and company were with the NFL. Plenty here knew that was case as well. Blech.

15 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's pretty simple IMO.  The Tepper Panthers are the most unsuccessful professional sports team in all of sports.  The problem isn't the posters here have changed ( I still content people falsely romanticize the old days).  The product dictates the atmosphere more than anything.  In reality, the daily convos about THE worst team in all of pro sports on a fanatics site....is going to feature harsh and critical convo.  Only one entity can actually change that.  It's the Carolina Panthers football team. 

if you are the most unsuccessful professional sports teams (Tepper's Panthers are that).....and a place like this isn't filled with very critical thoughts? Well, you probably don't actually have a real fanbase IMO. 

Exactly. Folks are waxing nostalgic about '20 years ago' but 20 years ago was 2005 - 2 years off of the Cardiac Cats Super Bowl run and right in the heart of Fox's on-again-off-again playoff runs, with stars and talent on both sides of the ball. 2010 was rough but it was obvious when Cam joined that he had the talent to elevate things, and even then took only 2 seasons to get to 2013 and the same yo-yo playoff runs. Today, it's been going on 8 years of sheer dumbassery and negligent mismanagement of the team resulting in years of awful, awful football on the field. Not hard at all to understand why cynicism rules the day.

11 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

We were bad for years before Bryce Young and it wasn’t like this. I didn’t like the Rhule hire, but I didn’t drag the board down every chance I got. I didn’t like letting Cam go and bringing in Teddy, but I didn’t make it my mission in life to make sure everybody who disagreed with me was berated into submission.

Sort of, but that #1 pick and the new regime was supposed to turn things around, not make it even worse. Makes complete and perfect sense as to why perception is still negative. Also, some people are still dishing out what the rose-colored-glasses crew spent the 2023 offseason spewing to those who dared suggest that Burns shouldn't be given a giant bag, that Bryce and Reich weren't great choices, etc. 

I loved the Dalton Schultz "his momentum had stopped so it wasn't a fumble even though he wasn't close to being down" BS back in 2021.

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Previous seasons I would have fully expected to see us do a pooch punt, leave it on the defense and watch the Cowboys get easily within range for their long leg kicker.

Hell, possibly even earlier this year. He got roasted, both by the public and probably internally as well, for some pretty cowardly playcalling and perhaps took some lessons from that.

Coachspeak is great, big what else were they going to do in that situation?

5 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

So I guess we can put to rest that overplayed BS about him not having an arm.. eat your crow and enjoy it.

Referring to what exactly?

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

It doesn't change who he is. We just replaced a serviceable starter with complete trash.

While I don't agree with your assessment of Witherspoon, I do agree with this.

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Three 100+ tackle seasons in 12.

All three guys peaked around the same level. 

You can't be serious. Anderson piled up tackles but was in no way near as dynamic or effective as Witherspoon. I'm not saying Witherspoon was HOF worthy or anything because he wasn't but equating those two players is flat out wrong. 

Witherspoon was way more of an impact player than Shaq or Anderson and is above both of them. Hell, 14 career interceptions and 11 forced fumbles (Spoon) to 3 and 5 (oddly enough both Shaq and Anderson have the same numbers) and he played in the early 2000s for a couple of years when pro sets/ground and pound was still a thing. Shaq was supposed to be a super athlete but effectively took over right where Anderson left off.

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wouldn't go that far. He's basically a James Anderson/Will Witherspoon level player. Check the box starter. Not a problem area but not a guy you make a cornerstone of your defense either.

Tell me you didn't just lump Will Witherspoon in with James Anderson. Those two are in no way comparable, with Witherspoon being levels above.

13 hours ago, frankw said:

This revisionist history that Bryce Young needs all pro talent at every position around him to flash franchise QB worthy play is wild beyond words considering what he was advertised as before the draft. And he himself happily participated in maintaining that hype by deciding not to throw at the combine because he knew how it would look.

He is 34 games into his NFL career. You guys cannot continue to throw every single player and coach under the bus and expect to be met with productive discussion in response.

This is exactly the crux of it. You don't spend a #1 overall on a player that requires perfection around him to play even decent football, and then when that lack of elevating ability is confirmed you don't continue down that path.