Sgt Schultz

We are not in a complete rebuild, and probably don't need to be. 

We have a decent OL, but little depth.  We knew coming in that if any of our starters there missed time it was going to be trouble.  But I am of the thinking that OL need to be added every year, if nothing else to shore up depth.  300+ pound guys grinding on other 300+ pound guys are going to get hurt.

We have some defensive pieces in place.  Secondary is a problem, especially since Horn can't stay on the field.

The skill positions on offense are in a total rebuild.  That, combined with the injuries and lack of OL depth to deal with them is a huge problem. Thus far we look like a team with dysfunctional skill players on offense and injuries on the OL and no depth to deal with them.

I remember seeing that play.  They showed a replay of it and I thought we escaped a bullet.  I guess not quite.

Let's just say our skill positions on offense leave something to be desired.  We have receivers not running routes well, not adjusting to the play, and the routes they are not running very well aren't that well conceived.

Otherwise, than design and execution, our passing game is perfect!

18 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Nothing like threads whining about other threads whining.

It's a message board, brosef.  There's a time and place for everything.  And as the old saying goes, opinions are like buttholes, and you know what they day about those lol.  And to compound all of that, we are currently enveloped in the literal worst, least successful period in franchise history.  As a result, there is a ton of angst, anger, embitterment, and frustration present, and there's plenty of reason for all of those feelings because of the current ownership and state of the team.  So, theres gotta be space for that, just as in 2015, we had countless redundant positivity threads because it was in the air.  You take the good woth the bad, within reason...

I would submit to you that about 24-36 hours ago, those last two words were out the window. 
 

5 minutes ago, Montsta said:

I frequented an Oakland A’s forum for years. During the run the team had around 2012 it was a very fun place to be. Fast forward to today and it’s an absolute shitshow. The fans go as the team goes. 

And those fans have a lot to throw a shitshow over.  The A's may be following the Raiders to Vegas, or they certainly want to.  Between a chronically bad product on a bad field to potentially no product on any field at all, it has to be toxic........and deja vu.  And there isn't much they can do about either of those things.

Not for nothing, but one of the facilities I deal with (and used to work at) is in the East Bay.  On a trip out there, a bunch of us went to an A's game.  They claimed there were 10,000 people there, but I'd say about 70% of those were dressed as empty seats.  You could literally hear on-field conversations from the stands because it was so quiet.  Rather eerie.

Oakland is not a happy place right now.

But I did get a good chuckle on the way out!

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I was starting to wonder where the "24 hour rule" went

I had the same thought.

That said, I thought the "mid life" thread was fine.  That was a lot less about jumping off the cliff after two weeks than it was thinking about ending it all after 25 years.

1 minute ago, OneBadCat said:

Okay so I've calmed down a bit. It does looks like separation is the biggest problem, not Bryce. However he did have some flats open even in that JT video. And that love tap sack was a bad look. Hopefully he will put on some size and become a little stouter over time. 

I'd like to see Reich let Bryce loose though. The offense needs to be more aggressive. Throwing on first and second down would help a lot. Tell him not to care about the picks. Learn the NFL throwing windows through experience. Playing scared is getting us too many 3 and outs.

I was living in northern Virginia for Joe Gibb's second stint as Foreskins head coach.  I was not then, nor will I ever be a fan of whatever the name of the team is in DC, but I was force-fed the stuff since I lived there.  They drafted Jason Campbell late in the first round.  Gibbs liked him a lot, and he was billed as the future franchise QB.

Gibbs drilled into him that whatever else he did or didn't do, just do not throw interceptions.  You guessed it, he responded by being averse to throwing the ball downfield.  Almost everything was within 10 yards of the LOS, and generally even shorter.

I don't know what Campbell was capable of becoming.  He had talent, and he wound up with a decent career as a journeyman.  But I always felt that we never saw whatever his upper limit was because his first three years having "just don't throw interceptions" beat into him.

Not throwing interceptions is important.  Being afraid to throw interceptions is a different story.

Expecting almost any WR coming out of college to run precise routes is about like expecting a rookie QB to walk into the NFL and be able to single-handedly lead an otherwise poorly-designed, poorly called, and poorly executed offense to greatness.  @frankw is correct, the same (reasonable) expectations and standards apply to both.

Generally young WRs have not had to be precise route runners in the past.  Don't get me wrong, some do, but they are generally not the guys you are going to find in the second round and often not in the back end of the first.

It is the same as a rookie QB having to learn just how fast NFL defenses are.  How many saw anything close to that on a weekly basis?

Both Mingo and Young have learning to do.  It's called being a rookie in the NFL.

As far as the Panther PR machine leading people to believe this was a playoff team ready to launch, what did we expect them to say, the truth?  "Strap in Panther fans, the first half of the season may be ugly."

As for people on this here forum thinking we would be 12-5 and a playoff menace, well, that is another story.  The relationship between unrealistic expectations and disappointment applies.  But, they are called fans (fanatics) for a reason.

@TheBigKat, all I can tell you is my own situation that I have said a few times on this here forum.

I've been an NFL and NHL fan since I was 8, back to 1969.  I grew up in St. Louis, so I am a Blues fan in hockey and was a Cardinals fan in the NFL (although more of a general NFL fan).  The Cardinals were hopeless, but I supported them anyway.

As for the Blues, almost every year they were good enough to make the Stanley Cup playoffs and good enough to generally get bounced in the first or second round.  It didn't matter how good or bad their regular season was, from 1971 on they were not to be found in the Stanley Cup Finals and almost never in the conference finals.  In 1970 (and 69 and 68) they were in the finals, but the way the league was structured, one expansion team from 1966 was going, it was them, and they were swept all three years. 

I moved from St. Louis in 1988 (as did the NFL Cardinals) and the only loyalty I had to the place was the Blues.  The yearly futility continued.  Making the playoffs in the NHL (as you may know) is not a big accomplishment since half the teams do.  I had accepted that I would leave this earth without seeing them win the Stanley Cup. They didn't even qualify for the 2018 playoffs, losing out in the last game of the regular season.

Approaching the midpoint of the 2019-2019 regular season they had the worst record in the entire league, had an interim coach, and had talent but looked lost.   Then the 2019 playoffs happened.  Long story shorter, in each of the four rounds they had a chance to do the usual "spring melt."  Each time, with me watching and waiting for the inevitable point where they eff it up, they responded to the challenge in a big way.  And, at 58 years of age after watching them for 50 years, I was fortunate enough to see them skate with the Stanley Cup.

The two morals of this story are:

• When you least expect it, expect it
• I was much happier after I gave up all hope

I thought this was Jeopardy!

"Who are Moe, Larry, and Curley?"

50 minutes ago, ickmule said:

I didn’t but I can 

He's retired now so it is probably not worth the effort.  Now Roger Goodell....... 

42 minutes ago, ickmule said:

 

Just out of curiosity, did you ever do one of these for Jerome Boger?

6 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/passing_advanced.htm

Stepping back through the last 3 seasons the longest pocket time of any QB by season end was 2.7 seconds and that's only 1 or 2 QBs tops.  

Maybe I am confusing it with their release time, then.  Which would include time outside of the pocket before the release. 

So, not so much of an anomaly.  My bad.

1 minute ago, Khyber53 said:

I saw the same thing in the stats. League wide it would seen.

If that continues, the league will no doubt change the rules.  DL and onrushing blitzers will have to count to "3 Mississippi" before crossing the LOS, or some other such tripe.

I would guess the number will go up as offenses settle in (usually after 3 or 4 games), but who knows.  It may just be some new trend.

11 minutes ago, Newtcase said:

Yeah what's lost in this is pocket time.  Bryce has the 3rd longest pocket time among all QBs at 2.6 seconds.  Of course they're going to get pressure eventually if you keep holding the ball.

Wow, 2.6 seconds is the third longest right now?  That is usually a little below the norm (typically around 2.7-2.75), with some QBs having over 3 seconds every year. 

Either defenses are getting after them or OLs have not hit their stride yet.

4 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

Jeremy Chinn is terrible in coverage. He's the most overrated player on the roster. I, for one, would not consider extending him. He's been living off his draft status and name recognition for 2 years now.

Coverage isn't his thing.  Maybe on a tight end, but that is about it.  Otherwise, his best use is as @tukafan21 said, basically a heat seeking missile locked on to the football.  Sort of a revised version of the monster man.

The Process and Snow either figured that out or allowed that role to happen.  Problem was, The Process being The Process, once he recognized it was working, he had to fix it and put him in a role he wasn't good at. 

21 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Are any of the anti-Young people hoping he fails or finding any enjoyment in the last 2 weeks?

I know I sure as hell am NOT

This is miserable, there is no enjoyment, and I desperately am hoping for Bryce to make me look like a complete fool.

But unfortunately all we've seen so far are the things those who didn't want Young felt were glaringly obvious flaws with him in the NFL.  Mainly that he doesn't have the arm or body strength to be an elite QB in today's NFL game and that he's a walking injury concern.

And I know I can only speak for myself, but I think others feel the same way...

Which is that we're not really all that upset at the way Bryce has played, but we felt that we gave up way too much in the trade to take a player with those risks and we're seeing the worst case scenario play out with us giving the Bears a Top 5 pick in a QB loaded draft instead of just being patient for one more year like a SMART franchise would have done.

The pro-Bryce people keep conflating our concerns with the trade with our concerns of Bryce, which don't get me wrong, we clearly have serious concerns with him, but they wouldn't be so bad if we didn't trade away our franchise's future to take him.

Honestly, the feeding frenzy on this site makes a statement that people ARE hoping he fails.  They seem to revel in it.  It may not be you, but take a breath and read the posts in one of the endless threads since Monday.

I'll admit, I got to that point with The Process......after two years, not two games.

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Same on pretty much all counts except I wouldn't look up your ex-wife 🫥

Smart man.  Where were you when I needed you?

19 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

Yep. As quick as I can lose interest in watching this team, I've lost interest in sticking around here much quicker. But hey if Bryce doesn't play, I guess that means it's gonna be a blowout W, since he -- not the scheme, coaches, OL, WRs, defense -- is the problem holding this clown car back.

I'm with you, brother.  If I want to talk to somebody who takes sheer pleasure in being miserable and making everybody around them miserable, I'll look up my ex-wife and spend about 10 minutes on the phone with her.

For the record, I was in the CJ Stroud camp prior to the draft, but there is no way in holy hell I would be hoping Young fails or finding any enjoyment in the last two weeks like some of these clowns.

44 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

lol at doing it after a 0 interception game

This place can't be saved at this point.

That is probably the truest thing posted today.

4 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Players are giving up on their routes early, we are calling rub routes but we are missing the rub, the timing is off on our meshes, and multiple receivers are in the same area at the same time on several plays. It’s pretty bad….

As usual, good information @TheCasillas.

I have been attributing the lack of separation and bunching up as a play design issue, but realized it was possible the receivers were just effing up their routes.  I dismissed that thinking that scenario would require too much effing up to be credible.  I should have known, there is no such thing as too much screwing up to be possible.

Your initial observations on the All 22 are consistent with what I was seeing (as was bad play design).

Something has to give.  I thought this team had a chance to make the playoffs (but not expecting it) based about 50% on it being a weak division, even if it is not as weak as last year.  The other 50% was about half dependent on our receivers being better as a group than they individually look on paper.  Instead, they have been worse than they look individually on paper. 

Having a young QB trying to distribute the ball to the Keystone Kops, whether by execution or play design, is not a ticket to success now or in the longer term.

A couple more recent ones I was mulling over yesterday.

What if Tepper canned Hurney before he canned Rivera?  Assuming the GM position got filled with someone savvy before the search for a new HC, perhaps we never hire The Process.

What if The Process hadn't reacted to Bridgewater's criticism by burning him at the stake?  Then we stick to the original plan and never wind up trading a slew of draft picks and burning additional cap space for Darnold.  That one gets into a lot more what-ifs, because it is possible or even likely we don't keep Bridgewater around for an expensive year three and wind up with Mayfield, and last year turns out about like last year did.  But, who would have been the 2nd round pick in 2022 that we threw away in the Darnold deal?

If we want to go back to the 2015 season, what if Gano does not ring the third-quarter FG attempt off the right upright.....or what if they had called the obvious offsides on Denver on that same kick?  Maybe things turn out the same way only the score winds up 23-13 (unlikely the Donkeys go for 2 on the last TD), or maybe, just maybe, things being 3 points tighter changes the rest of the second half.

11 minutes ago, Varking said:

Where did you get this? Data says it’s from 2022 at the top. 

Good question.  Looks like 2023 QB names, so my guess is they screwed up the title bar.

59 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Can't believe people making such a big deal out of that. 

It's called a feeding frenzy.  Imagine what they would be saying if he walked onto the field with one of his shoes untied.