panther4life

Thanks for posting. I understand the whole bias thing being referenced here because I personally thought of Stroud as 1A and Young as 1B. However, I am starring to get the sense that they favor Young, as has many of the people in the media. So now I am starting to warm up to the idea of Young more and more.

My memory isn’t great, but there were a lot of people who wanted Blaine Gabbert over Cam back in 2011. I’d still say most were correct in wanting Cam but it wasn’t 100%. Again my memory sucks but I think there was a large porting who wanted Marcell Dareus the DT. Side note, that was one of the most top heavy drafts in terms of talent we have ever seen. Von Miller, Patrick Peterson,A.J Green, Julio Jones, J.J Watt,Aldon Smith, Tyron Smith were all top 11 picks and the only bad choices were the QB’s not named Cam (Gabbert and Locker)

As soon as the offseason began I started making threads about trading up for 1 to go get out our top choice of Stroud/Young. I didn’t have a strong preference on either. Since we’ve moved up, I’ve watched as many snaps of each of them as I can find on YouTube and my opinion largely remains the same. I personally like Stroud a bit more but don’t trust my own eyes over the guys making the decision. I am just thankful to have a reason to get excited about this team again. Been a fan since 95 but didn’t get to really watch all the games til 96. This last 5 year stretch has been the most brutal, miserable time period with no end in sight until now. For that I’m happy and can’t wait to see what lies ahead for us.

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Just went back and looked at the 2020 and 2021 draft classes and compared the rankings against the top of those classes. I narrowed it down to Burrow,Tua, Jalen Hurts, Justin Herbert, Lawrence, Mac Jones, Justin Fields, Young and Stroud First of all Jones was the overall winner, so that may poo all over these stats. Anyway here's the ranking of all 9 in key categories from their final season before being drafted: In the pocket QBR 1.Tua 96.2 2.Jones 95.8 3.Hurts 94 4.Burrow 93.2 5.Fields 88.4 6.Stroud 86.3 7.Young 82.6 8.Lawrence 79.8 9.Herbert 78.8 Out of pocket QBR 1. Young 95.7 2. Burrow 94.6 3. Jones 93.9 4. Hurts 89.1 5. Fields 71.2 6. Stroud 69 7. Lawrence 66 8. Herbert 37.3 9. Tua 34.8 QBR When pressured 1. Burrow 82.6 2. Jones 78.3 3. Tua 44.1 4. Hurts 38.8 5. Lawrence 34.4 6. Stroud 30.6 7. Young 30.1 8. Fields 22.6 9. Herbert 16.3 Deep ball off target % 20+ yards downfield (lower the better obviously) 1. Jones 17.4 2. Lawrence 23.7 3. Burrow 24.6 4. Young 25 5. Hurts 25.9 6. Fields 27.3 7. Stroud 32 8. Herbert 38 9. Tua 40 Out route off target 11-20 yard downfield% 1. Fields 4.4 2. Hurts 10.5 3. Lawrence 11.9 4. Stroud 13.3 5. Jones 14.8 6. Herbert 19.1 7. Young 22.2 8. Burrow 29.6 9. Tua 30 Intermediate downfield off target % (11-20 yards downfield) 1. Fields 6.9 2. Jones 7.6 3. Lawrence 8.4 4. Young 11.9 5. Tua 12.5 6. Hurts 14.1 7. Burrow 14.4 8. Stroud 17 9. Herbert 19.1 If you scored these metrics based on ranking in each of the above as a total sum ranking (lower the better, for example if you were ranked number 1 in all 6 of these categories your total would be 6) 1. Jones 15 2. Hurts 24 3. Burrow 25 4. Fields 2, 5. Lawrence 28 6.Young 30 7. Tua 36 8. Stroud 37 9. Herbert 49

This really cements that they haven’t finalized any decisions and nor should they. They have the luxury of taking all the time and resources needed to make sure they get a good return on the heavy investment they made to get this pick. I’m sure everyone has their favorite at the moment but hopefully all are going into this with an open mind and can reach a consensus before draft day.

A and B have the most glowing reviews of those reports. I think I understand your plight and may be wrong but if you’re trying to get someone to have some epiphany and decide they all of a sudden like Young when the only reason they didn’t like him was his size, I don’t think you’re changing anyone’s mind. I personally like Stroud and Young and am happy as hell one of them will likely be our QB and to know they were the coaching staffs first choice not just the best of what was left, makes it even better. My biggest knock on Young isn’t his size but rather all the throws I see behind or shortly beyond the line of scrimmage. I’d like to have seen him go downfield more often. However that just seems to be him playing the game the way his coaches wanted him to. The biggest concern I have about Stroud is what I’m not smart enough to know/ have the privilege of knowing. Can he read a defense and accurately make adjustments, and do all the things required at the NFL level that isn’t required of him now. Lastly, both there’s kids are only 21 Years old. They will play more football in the NFL than they’ve played in totality of their life so far. There’s so many intangibles that could change the course of these kids paths and we don’t have the first clue or access on how to get a read on that. I trust the front office/coaching staff as long as they don’t Levis.

I really wish ESPN would have included the number of pass attempts attached to each stat. The only context mentioned in the article said that Stroud was 20 of 30 on out routes (the 3rd most in this exercise of 9 QB's). From the article it says no QB in the last 5 years completed 2/3rds of their out route passes like Stroud has when attempting 30 or more. Also mentioned Stroud had as many TD passes on out routes as he did missed targets on out routes (4 each). Hooker was 8 of 10 on out routes, and that Levis was 3 for 7 on them. The out route seems to be of importance in the NFL, especially on 2 minute drill situations. I don't know this to be 100% fact but when watching their games, I swear I saw more intermediate and deep passes by Stroud than Young. I also believe Young escaped the pocket more and threw from outside of it a lot more than Stroud. There is so much to like about Stroud and Young but I am at least starting to see more and more why Young has been the consensus number 1. Either way I think both would thrive under our current staff and can't wait to see who they eventually settle on.

READ THIS FIRST: These stats lack context, for example if someone had a great or bad accuracy in one area, it does not show you how many times they made that type of pass. For example if someone had a perfect 100% completion percentage but only made that throw 2 times, vs someone who made that same throw 50 times and had a 84% completion percentage, then the lower guy may be in fact better. The article did not contain this info. Also QBR also includes running ability vs passer rating which only considers passes. Some detailed stats from Espn today, no link as it's subscription based. The original charts had 9 players total, based on their rankings I decided to parse it down to just these 5. So while the bottom one may have ranked 5th here, they could have ranked 9th overall in the original chart. QBR Inside of Pocket: 1. Hooker 88.3 2. Stroud 86.3 3. Young 82.6 4. Levis 75.6 5.Richard 64.0 FBS average: 63.7 QBR outside of pocket 1. Young 95.7 2. Hooker 88.4 3. Richardson 81 4. Stroud 69 5. Levis 20.7 FBS average 60.5 QBR When Blitzed: 1. Young, 89.9 2. Hooker, 88.9 3.Stroud, 85.3 4. Levis, 60.9 5.Richardson, 50.4 FBS average: 59.4 QBR When (actually) pressured 1. Stroud, 30.6 2. Young, 30.1 3. Richardson, 17.4 4. Levis, 14.1 5. Hooker, 7.8 FBS average, 14.0 Deep Ball (21+ yards down field) completion percentage: 1. Stroud 50% 2. Young 45% 3 .Levis 42.1% 4. Richardson 41.5% 5. Hooker, 41% FBS average 36.9% Deep Ball Off-Target percentage: 1. Young 25% 2. Stroud 32.7% 3. Richardson 34% 4. Hooker 37.7% 5. Levis 39.5% FBS average 37% Out Route (11-20 yards downfield to outside the numbers, from pocket ) completion percentage 1. Hooker 80% 2. Stroud 66.7% 3. Richardson 52.9% 4. Levis 42.9% 5. Young 40.7% FBS average 48.9% Out Route (11-20 yards downfield to outside the numbers, from pocket ) off target percentage 1. Hooker 10% 2. Stroud 13.3% 3. Young 22.2% 4. Levis 28.6% 5. Richardson 29.4% FBS average 23.1% Intermediate off target percentage (11-20 yards downfield, they did not include completion percentage for this stat) 1. Levis 6.4% 2. Hooker 10.3% 3. Young 11.9% 4. Richardson 14.4% 5. Stroud 17% FBS average 23.1% Short off-target percentage (10 yards or less downfield, again no completion percentage stat listed here) 1. Young 1.8% 2. Hooker 5.3% 3. Levis 5.9% 4. Stroud 6% 5. Richardson 8.2% FBS average 5.8%

I don't know, I think he and Fitterer have both been fairly straightforward,as much as you can be. At the beginning of the combine, he Poles stated he preferred to have a deal done before the start of free agency, because if he acquired any players as part of a trade, they would have a clearer path on how to attack free agency, in addition to knowing what other draft capital they had. Around that same time Fitterer was telling everyone to expect a sexy draft. It seems there has been consistent reporting that other teams inquired and thought the price was A. either too high to move up or B. Non-commital and wanted more time to vet out their options. Meanwhile our brass came in hot and struck while the iron was hot. It truly was a win-win deal for both sides.

Man the lack of edit abilities got me. Meant to say certainly not forcing themselves!

I personally like Stroud slightly more than Young, but it sure seems like they are leaning Young but certainly forcing themselves to make a decision sooner than they have to. The statement of wanting see 2-3 years or 1000 plays on tape to evaluate pretty much confirms it won’t be Richardson. I’m starting to feel stronger and stronger after, that Young and Stroud will be the only 2 QB’s taken top 10.

Wow, that indicates the Texans had flirted with parting with a 1 next year to move up 1 spot. However it doesn’t say if Chicago would have given up a 2 this year or something else of value in return, which seems likely. Also made it sound like the Texans didn’t give a strong degree of confidence they’d actually pull the trigger, meanwhile Scott Fitterer seemed pretty aggressive in getting it done ASAP, as to not play around and let someone else swoop in. Ive also read somewhere that the Raiders inquired about moving up and they were told the price was identical to our trade, except it would take the 2025 First Rounder as opposed to a player (D.J Moore in our case). Couldn’t be happier that we made the move when we did! Had this gone down and we traded up to 2, this means we were comfortable taking Stroud or Young. Seems there was a never a doubt that we wanted to go up and get a rookie this year.

Looks like overthecap has all the up to date numbers so far and they are showing 24 million in cap space. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/carolina-panthers

I’ve seen more people complaining about his contract than unwarranted enthusiasm. One could argue he was the Premeire WR available in free agency(yes this class wasn’t great), with only his age being the biggest knock against him. With more targets he may actually end up having a better season this year with us than he did last year with Minnesota. Sure would be nice to acquire more talent at the position but hard to argue we aren’t better with him than without him.

Let Fitterer worry about the cap. We got a TD scoring machine who will help out the rookie QB. Without him our top receiver was TMJ, 0 reason to be anything but happy about this signing.

please make it twitter official so we can throw the Texans off with this smokescreen!

You’re right, I’d be absolutely shocked if any teams gave a crap about who’s tweeting what and lended it any credence at all. It’s all bull and I’ll even go as far to say Richardson goes closer to pick 32 than he does pick 1 and I have 0 sources.

Smokescreen would be a stretch, as I doubt any other NFL team is taking any tweets from anyone seriously.

This is just my opinion of the order of importance/overall good for the long term health of this team. 1. The big trade up to number 1. I love this move for obvious reasons. We need a franchise QB and the front office/coaching staff in collaboration think there's at least 1 here and they have the ability to vet them until the draft comes to make sure everyone is on the same page. The timing of it before free agency removes a lot of uncertainty and helps pave a clearer path of how to move forward with the rest of the offseason. I hate that we had to give up D.J Moore but in the end this was a fair deal that should benefit both teams in the long run in theory, pending the success of the QB we take and Justin Fields success moving forward. 2. The coaching staff Most anyone would agree this coaching staff on paper is a home run. From retaining the good coaches and adding a nice mixture of wisdom and young talent this went about as good as anyone could ask for. This only ranks behind the big trade for me, because I personally believe no matter how good of a coaching staff we hired, if we didn't make the move to 1 and ended up with Derek Carr, Jimmy Garrapolo or worse at QB the ceiling would have been pretty low for this staff. 3. Re-signing Bozeman 3 yrs, 18 million,10 million guaranteed at signing We finally have a respectable O-line again and for the first time in almost 15 years we will repeat the same starting 5 again. Everyone realizes the value Bozeman brings to this team. 4. Signing Von Bell (Strong Safety) 3 yrs 22.5 million, 13 million guaranteed at signing He's an enforcer that flies all over the field. A veteran presence and still only 28 years old. Should add a lot of flexibility to our defense. He is very reliable and virtually plays every snap (averaged 98.5% of defensive snaps last 4 years). According to NFL Next gen stats he's tied for 5th in pressures generated from a DB (13) since 2021. From the same source he's also 4th in tackles made 20+ yards from snap to tackle (19 total) since 2021 5. Signing Miles Sanders (RB) 4 yrs 25 Million, 13 million guaranteed at signing In 4 his year career he's averaging 5 YPC over but still has plenty of tread left with only 739 carries so far. He's shown incredible consistency and last year he had a career high in rushing TD's. He should be well prepared to take some heat off the rookie QB and assist in keeping the down and distance shorter, especially behind this o-line. 6. Signing Shy Tuttle (DT) 3 years, 19.5 million, 13 million guaranteed at signing Didn't appear to be too many choices for a mid tier DT that can play nose in the 3-4. Hopefully he will be an impact player and prove worthy of being a starter. 7. Signing Hayden Hurst (TE) 3 years, 21.75 million, 13 million guaranteed at signing Tight ends have quietly become an expensive position in the NFL. Hayden's contract seemed like a lot at first glance, but it actually puts him in the middle of the pack for starting T.E's and thats basically what has play has been thus far. So a nice upgrade for us at the position and our first reliable pass catcher at the position since 2019 (Greg Olsen). 8. Signing Deshawn Williams DE, no contract terms available yet. Looks like a career journeymen who finally caught on and had a decent season last year under our new defensive coordinator Evero. Terms of the deal haven't been disclosed yet but seems unlikely it will be a significant investment. 9. Signing Andy Dalton QB There was no shortage of backup QB'S this year. It was something we needed and someone who can guide the rookie, plus also play a few games if needed. Dalton checks all those boxes. Just by the sheer plethora of QB's of his stature available, I rank this one the lowest, while still being appreciative and liking every move made so far.

@CPcavedweller Good post! I just read this after listening to ed mccaffrey echoing the same sentiments on his radio show this morning on nfl radio. You’re absolutely right. If Lamar was an elite pocket passer and didn’t rely on his ability to be a dual threat he’d have more suitors and success in getting the type of fully guaranteed deal he wants and this isn’t a collusion issue or anything else. It’s just common sense from a teams perspective. I also understand Lamar’s plight as well and perhaps an agent might have been in his ear insisting this logic to him and being as talented as he is, he didn’t want to hear it. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds

Wow! Didn’t see that coming. Strong signing!

Statistically he's about the 18th best tight end in the league. His contract is about the 18th highest annual average for a tight end. Now I have 0 idea how he ranks as a blocker and would have to googl that.

We don’t have a lot of options. Parris Campbell, Chark and Thielen are the best remaing free agents imo. I’d love to see us sign 2 of those 3 if possible.

I think they are ok with Young and Stroud. Now they have time to do a deep dive on both and figure out who they like more. I doubt strongly they will trade down at all. It also helped them enter free agency with the realization that they have got find some way to ease the burden of having to part with D.J.