The Goddamn Jets

On 10/25/2021 at 12:28 PM, GoobyPls said:

Panthers fan like to crown QBs after a few games. Allen, Teddy, Sam all these guys are the same. 

Not exclusive.  Plenty of Jets fans who said, "SAM JUST NEEDS BLAH BLAH BLAH AND THEN HE'LL BE BLAH BLAH BLAH" were running wild after week 3.

On 10/25/2021 at 11:29 AM, glenwo2 said:

^^^^ Seems like the Jets fans are signing up with new accounts to join in the Darnold-Bashing.  LOL!

BTW, they should bash their own CS as well.   Zach is well on his way to being...."Sam Darnold'd"

 

We do... We do... I mean, Zach Wilson bashing was kind of in my first post, no?

Also, I signed up after the trade, and didn't troll.  Had some good conversations with the people here.

On 10/25/2021 at 10:31 AM, kratos997 said:

Darnold is and has always been horrible. USC, JETS and now PANTHERS. I never understood what they saw in him when they made the trade. Yes the offensive line is horrendous also, but they are not the ones turning the ball over week in and week out.

Sam Darnold minus 2017 Rose Bowl equals 3rd round pick

On 10/25/2021 at 8:45 AM, joemac said:

his fundamentals and footwork have completely collapsed. 

He never had those.

On 10/25/2021 at 7:30 AM, glenwo2 said:

Who are you?

A humble connoisseur of bad quarterbacking.

3 minutes ago, onmyown said:

it’s the opposite. a year and what makes it essentially 12m a year for two years doesn’t mean anything. anyone crying about that doesn’t understand the cap, what qbs cost now days, salaries and how it can be manipulated. Panthers have 12m just sitting doing nothing as we speak

i don’t understand the trade…you’ll never get pack those picks which are much more value than paying some dead money a year this team won’t be competing for anything anyways 

I'm not sure you can just average it out when you don't even know if you want him next year.  Regardless of the averages, you're stuck with him next year at 18M.  That's not a good thing, and easily avoidable for a very manageable risk.

Obviously I won't argue making that trade was good for you.  Darnold is trash and most should have known this wasn't because Jets... I'm just saying I get it...

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Take him back please and thank you.

No thanks.  Him and Blitz Boy being terrible is literally the only thing we have to feel good about.

Just now, Shocker said:

You don't have weapons or a line. 

That's the reason we're not a good offense.  And, Wilson has definitely been let down by them at times.  But, Wilson's inability to execute is the reason we're a dreadful one.

There are many, many opportunities that he botches.  Look now further than todays game.  Our back-up QB, who is by no means good, came in, and he found open WRs and moved the ball.  Is he a guy you can rely on, of course not.  But, does he dispel the notion that nothing is possible with this offense?  I think so.

1 minute ago, Shocker said:

Wilson had very little chance on that offense

Our offense isn't the reason he's inaccurate or not executing what's supposed to be the easy stuff.

1 minute ago, pantherj said:

I didn't want Sam to start with. That's a guy you pick up after he's cut and give him a 1 year prove it deal, or pay what you have to on the contract only. I still still don't know why we traded for him. No other teams wanted him.

I understand the trade, as there is some reason to believe the Jets were the problem, because well...

I cannot understand why in the world you'd pick up his option.  You're on the hook for 18M when you'd probably want to get rid of him.  Franchise tag would only have been 7M more, in the worst case financial scenario were you to have been right that he was actually good and the Jets/Gase were the problem.

2 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Zach had a good game against the Titans. He's better than Sam but holy fug just sit him for the rest of the year

Meh - Connected on a few big plays, but missed a number of easy throws that would have sealed the game well before needing a missed OT FG.

At present, he's basically just a schoolyard QB who's one play is "go long" and his biggest weapon this throwing the ball downfield and getting a DPI for a big gain.

Now, any buyers for our new terrible QB?

2 hours ago, panthertime said:

Jets Fan, I think we all are ready to make you a Panthers fan. Jump on board the Sam Darnold train as we're leaving the station.

Just made this video and tweeted out my support:

2 hours ago, Madwolf said:

I remember not understanding Darnold's stock leading up to the draft, and Kiper saying that and just being blown away with how stupid it seemed.

He's got a lot of the measurables you look for, and he had that Rose Bowl performance.

2 hours ago, CRA said:

I was just alluding to the fact that the bust number they assigned factors in a lot....and a lot of why his number was what it was....wasn't an evaluation of his actual QB play.  

QB with only 2 years total positional experience + Top 5 selection was part of their math.    So he gets a high bust rate.   On that alone.  No matter how he plays and looks.   Because I can't name a single top 5 QB drafted in recent decades that compares. 

 

Agreed.  But, the decision to weight his lack of experience is not accidental or without merit.  College starts do hold some weight in correlation to success in the pros.  This was a big concern with Sanchez.  His QBASE was disastrously low, and we traded up for him because we're dumb.  And, no surprise, he was awful.  Two things happen with more college starts: 1) Sample size improves for evaluation, and 2) QBs learn and gain more experience in live action against hopefully higher competition than they got in HS.

As for sample sizes, if Darnold has another year in college that looks like his junior year, not his sophomore, you think he's still a top QB?  He was smart to come out when he did - pure business decision.  I truly believe his camp is very smart, and maximizing his earnings to the best of their ability before he ultimately flames out.

42 minutes ago, CRA said:

well, that QBASE IMO wasn't based much on play/potential but more simply the math of he played QB for 2 years in college.   And that sums up his QB resume.  Can't say that about basically anyone else.   Raw.  The last team that needed to draft Darnold was the NYJ.   Darnold was always doomed in NY. 

NFL success, especially QB success, is largely coaching/stability and fit IMO.    Especially early on.   The team you land with....has a lot to do with the outcome IMO.   

 

QBASE is a mathematical formula that does it's best to predict a college QB's potential in the NFL.  Have you read about it before?

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2021/introducing-qbase-v20

It takes in a lot of factors, and it's greatest success rate is in predicting busts.  It seems to do so at a higher rate than traditional scouting.  It basically called Darnold a 50/50 prospect to bust.  Based on even what you're saying about him being 'unfinished' or 'needing development,' sort of speaks to that, no?  These are all things that very easily may not work out.

As for NFL success, coaching/stability and fit may all be hindsight analysis.  Bad QBs get coaches fired.  Darnold has put a lot of coaches out of jobs.  Good QBs keep coaches in their jobs.  Belichick has stated in the past it was his expectation to be fired after the season Bledsoe got hurt and Brady came in, but then Brady...

45 minutes ago, CRA said:

but I'd argue it as a mix.  It isn't just a surrounding cast argument.  I think it is that aspect....coupled with his age and coaching.   So it takes all 3 of those together to be like....yeah, we should kick the tires on Sam in Carolina. 

Joe Brady is going to put him in good spots with good weapons.     We will just have to see how Sam looks in that scenario. 

Darnold was pretty raw coming to NY.  Talented but raw.  He needed a friendly entry to the NFL.  

 

Yeah - I don't think you guys made a bad decision, based on these factors, and what you paid.  It's a relatively low risk gamble.  We'll see how it goes - obviously I'll be following along - I just think he's another USC QB who didn't work out when he wasn't surrounded by talent that overwhelmed the opponent.  Let's not forget that, coaching and talent aside, QBASE had him at a 52% bust rate, 2nd highest of the 1st round QBs (only to Allen, who has been a literal unicorn when it comes to all the statistical measures) - so we shouldn't be terribly surprised when a guy who the best metric we have for predicting duds at the position said it was > 50% he'd bust.

The funny thing is, I soured on Darnold at the combine, and then convinced myself it was nothing.  When Darnold stood next to Allen, Rosen, and Mayfield - all of them slinging the ball around, and he didn't participate, something about that was just so telling to me... Felt like he wasn't a competitor; scared, maybe.  Of course, when he fell to us, I pretended that never happened or was a smart business decision because he didn't want to be upstaged by Allen's arm.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Because Winston was given the opportunity to play with a legit and deep supporting cast on offense.  For years.  And years.   

Sam has never been in a position to succeed.  Grow.  Or show what he really has.    Sam pulled off 7-9 in poo sandwich at 22.  

I'd like to see Sam with good weapons and coaching.  We have already seen Winston in that scenario.  For years. 

 

I think the supporting cast argument is certainly reason for hope, but you can overthrow a great WR in the same way you can a lesser one, and you can not see a bad receiver the same way you can not see a great one. I also think there's merit to the fact that last year, not just Mims, but he's a good example, played two or three games with Flacco, vs. a bunch more with Darnold.  Two of his 3 top games were with Flacco.

On 4/7/2021 at 7:33 PM, Basbear said:

Whats the current deal with the fireman fellow? 

 

Please dish out some rumors on Sam Darnold that never got told to the public. If none make up a few. 

Nothing all that interesting, unfortunately.

By all accounts he's a good kid that keeps to himself.

I have heard some stories about him going out to the bars after games and getting so lit up that his teammates have had to drag him home.  Nothing all that interesting there, and it sort of tracks with his age and the mono thing.

On 4/7/2021 at 7:11 PM, tiger7_88 said:

Here's a nice, personal story about for you about Namath.

Of course Namath went to Bama.  Coached by Bear Bryant there.

I was going to Auburn at the time that Bear Bryant broke the then-record for career wins for a college coach at the top division level (what was then called Division 1-A).  The game where he broke that record?  The Iron Bowl against Auburn in 1981.

I am no athlete, but I was a pretty decent musician, so I made sure to join the Auburn Marching Band when I went to college.  Free football and free trips sounded fun to me.  So I was on the sideline preparing for the half-time show at that Iron Bowl in 1981.  A *huge* number of former Bama players that played for Bear Bryant were on the sideline for that game in order to be there for the Bear's record-breaking win (it was a closer game than they anticipated, Bama was highly ranked and Auburn was unranked and the final score was 28-17). 

Each and every one of those players on the sideline purposely ignored us Auburn folk... except for one.

Joe Willie Namath.

He was talking to a couple of reporters on the sideline and he saw a few of us Auburn band members looking at him and talking to each other (we were saying things like, "Yeah, that's Joe Namath alright") and he excused himself from the media by saying "Excuse me for a moment, I have to go over here and talk to some of my Auburn friends."

And so he did. 

INCREDIBLY nice man.

Oh, and in addition to that, even though I was and am an Auburn guy, back in the 1960's I got this incredible gift from Santa Claus:

I've heard some really positive stories like this.

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I watched it happen.

My buddy and I were both like "Did we just see that?"

That's fairly tame.

I'm no longer invited to family functions on my wife's side.

37 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Of course Mel Kiper likes the deal and gives us a A+. He says, "stats lie," and he hopes Darnold goes the way of Josh Allen and proves everyone wrong because he believes Darnold still can be a highly competent QB.

Mel Kiper, 2017: "I think when you look back at John Elway, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, we're going to view Sam Darnold in that same light."

Sounds like someone doesn't want to admit that they were, maybe, just a bit off here.

29 minutes ago, CRA said:

would you agree that in the the last half century (50 years), the buttfumble is the most iconic and memorable moment in Jets football history? 

I think what people forget is that the Buttfumble happened on Thanksgiving.

So, yes.

The Jets, and specifically, Mark Sanchez, ruined Thanksgiving.

12 minutes ago, Shufdog said:

Do you think Flash Gordan could've won the Jets a supper bowl if he didn't go into space and save everyone of us?

Even the fictional Jets can't catch a break.

19 minutes ago, JetFan said:

This is a similar opinion to the OP, but I would say that Brady will implement a plan to fix these issues, at least from what Ive read about him. As opposed to Gase, who spent literally  2 years not communicating with his QB during games 

"Gase was criticized for his painfully horizontal offense, but have we considered the possibility that it was a result of Darnold’s own limitations as a passer?"

This is why the Gase argument falls flat.  We can all agree that Gase was a failure of a head coach.  But, what the "it's all gase" argument asks you to accept is that he was so inept, it was as if he doesn't generally understand basic concepts of football.  And, frankly, that's a funny position to take on the internet or talk radio, but you don't become an NFL head coach without the ability to recognize the this us idiots see plain as day.

There have been plenty of people around Darnold, you'd think, if some of this were able to be fixed, we'd see at least some signs of it.  He's also had Palmer as an independent QB coach.