CamTheMan

PJ Walker and Baker were both here for all of training camp but Baker has gotten all the reps, so PJ definitely doesn't know the offense better. As for Baker, he played 4 seasons before this and was never even close to being this terrible. We've gone through 4 QBs in 3 years who have all looked so inept that we felt the need to replace them immediately even though they've all (except for Darnold) had success before or after playing for us. Hard to judge our talent with this coaching staff being among the worst in the history of the sport.

I’d want Chris Tabor to be interim HC. I think if Rhule is fired Snow goes with him, so Wilks would probably need to focus his time on the defense and fixing them. I think the team is talented but I think it’s too late to salvage the season. I love the offseason and part of me wants us to suck and get a great pick but above all i just want us to field a team that doesnt make me hate football lmao

I don’t know if any of that is true but I do know that many people on here were raising some of those concerns before the offseason even started. If Snow and the defense wants to play small and fast on the edges of the defensive line I honestly don’t care enough to complain about it, but why the fugg did we put the #8 overall pick pass rushing defensive tackle into the 1-T? Why the fugg did the coaches and FO not bring in a real 1-T after watching Brown and our defense struggle to play the run last season? The personnel decisions and putting players in horrible positions to succeed are an even worse offense than anything with the scheme imo

I’m gonna call bull on some of the offensive line grades. Corbett was pretty good outside of the one play he got Baker killed, which completely tanked his grade for some reason. Meanwhile Michael Jordan was out there getting wrecked against their backups as well as their starters. He should be fighting for a roster spot, no idea how he’s starting still. Him and Elflein are clearly terrible and are significant downgrades over the guys on our bench that were presumably brought in to start (Icky, Bozeman).

Na, the difference between us is that you will watch something once live and believe you know everything and I’ll watch it multiple times and use stats to help me understand it further, and I still will say I have more I need to understand. You’ll sit there and say everyone, including quantitative statistics, is wrong.. while you know what REALLY happened. You’ve said multiple things that objectively made zero sense at all, the worst being that our defense was bad to start games and couldn’t defend the run early. That’s already been disproved easily and is obviously wrong to anyone who actually watched the game, but you’ll sit there and die on your hill rather than just simple admit you were wrong about something. It happens, move on.

I watched every game as well, some multiple times unfortunately. Since we disagree, stats help us look at what objectively happened. Wins and losses is a team stat dependent on so many factors. We won 5 games and had chances in many more even though we had the worst offense in the league and a below average special teams. We would have had a top 3 pick if our defense was also below average. Points allowed is a basic stat, just as yards allowed is a basic stat. Neither of them tell the whole story. Hence why we should look at efficiency stats rather than the most basic stats possible. It’s becoming increasingly obvious you don’t actually care about having a debate and would rather just say “I watched the games so I win.” You won’t change your mind no matter what evidence is presented to you lol

Do you not see the irony in you saying this in a thread YOU made about a random team stat, which you blamed entirely on the defense...? If you need to resort to some kind of out there, specifically chosen stat in order to prove that someone ISN'T good... ...they are.

This entire thread that you created is based on a stat you found to discredit our defense. People reply back with stats disproving you, and you go on about how stats don't matter and how watching the games matter. I also watched every game, sometimes multiple times to look at specific players and schematics. I disagree with your opinion, therefor the logical conclusion would be to look to stats and quantitative data to find out if they confirm or deny our surface level observations. You holding onto your own subjective beliefs in the face of overwhelming data disproving it is worrying on a macrolevel and I'd say is the main contributor to the problem we face today where people can't disagree about anything without it devolving.

Responding any more after this would be a waste of time so I'll end it with this. Firstly, we allowed under 4 yards per carry the entire first half of games, which would be top 3 in the NFL. That is what I would consider as early on. Our second half yards per carry was 4.3, which would have still been in the top half of the league. We were 6th in net yards per pass attempt. We were 11th and 12th in hurry rate and knockdown rate, respectively. 8th in pressure rate. 9th in sack percentage. 11th in expected points contributed by passing defense and 8th in expected points contributed by rushing defense. We were 4th in yards per play. We were 15th in points per drive, even considering we had the worst starting position in the league. Our average starting position was a whole 2 yards farther than 2nd worst, and 7.5 yards farther upfield than the team in first. 5 yards farther than average. We had the 2nd most defensive drives in the league. Let me throw out stats for a second and use basic logic since you hate statistics. Our quarterback was worst in the league. Our offensive line was bottom 3 in the league. Our WR2 had one of the most inefficient seasons from any WR in decades. We fired one college offensive coordinator and replaced him with another college coordinator halfway through the season. We turned the ball over at one of the highest rates in the league. We had no run game offensively. We had a terrible special teams. Yet we won 5 games and competed in many more, as your original stat suggested. How in the world did we possibly do that if our defense was average or even below average, like you're suggesting. Oh, but none of these objective statistics mean anything. You, a random poster on an internet thread, is more reliable than hundreds of metrics that will disagree with you. We should stop relying on stats and instead rely on what? What exactly should we rely on other than quantitative data to form opinions?

Bottom 3 offense*

Nobody has said we are the second best defense in the league. Literally nobody has ever said that. What we are saying is that it’s laughable to try and convince anyone this was an “average at best” defense. They were 15th in points allowed per drive, which is their worst ranking in any stat and can easily be explained by the fact we were DEAD LAST in starting field position. Why are you people ignoring that and the fact our defense faced extreme high volume since our offense was so terrible. This isn’t rocket science. Above average defense + Bottom 3 defense = Good efficiency stats and below average total volume stats

It’s worthless to argue with them. Their logic has been disproven over and over again and they just keep repeating it. The Scot guy has been repeating that our defense started off games bad even though it’s been proven multiple times that we easily had a top 5 first quarter defense in literally every regard. As with everything now, people would rather be wrong the rest of their lives instead of putting their ego aside to change their mind once and admit they are wrong.

The defense was 8th in rush yards per attempt. We got killed by volume, not efficiency. First half rushing yards were 3.8 YPA, which would have been top 3 in the NFL. And our personnel was very good, I'd agree. However, it was not meant to stop the run at all. We often had Reddick and Burns both on the field at the same time in 4 man fronts.

Our defense has room to grow in specific areas and situations and probably wasn't the #2 defense in the league, but no this defense wasn't average and no the defense wasn't blowing the leads. By all accounts, our defense was better with the lead than trailing. With the lead, QBs had an 86.6 rating against us. Trailing, QBs had a 106.2 rating against us. This would suggest the complete opposite of what people suggest. I think it's obvious that our offense was by far the problem last season and you have to go through so much mental gymnastics to blame our defense for the stat this thread is based on. The offense was 29th in turnovers and were by far worst in the league on offense outside of the first quarter. Meanwhile our defense was given statistically the worst starting position in the league, had the 3rd best average drive time, 1st in average amount of plays per drive, 2nd in average yards per drive, and 15th in average points per drive. I wonder if the turnovers and average starting position played a part in points allowed lol... Totally the fault of the defense!