tukafan21

2nd and a 5th?!?!?!?!?!

fug this franchise, what a joke, fire Morgan immediately

Just now, SOJA said:

I'd argue if Burns were draftable he would be the top rated defensive player in this draft even at his age soooo I would ask for 6

There are probably only a dozen non QB's in the entire NFL that a team would give up the 6th pick in the draft for when they know they then have to give that player a $25+ million contract to

And spoiler alert, Burns sure as poo aint one of those players.

Just now, SOJA said:

sounds like it's not quite as close as Sheena indicated. 

also sounds like 6 is off the table which is a shame because I would actually take 6 overall in this draft over the Rams deal tbh 

lol of course 6 is off the table

If 6 was on the table we would probably throw in cash to pay part of Burns' salary

3 minutes ago, Basbear said:

All the Panthers need is starting RB, TE, WR, WR, C, NT, DE, OLB, OLB, LB, NB, CB, and FS

*Could add QB, LT, and LG

Plus depth at QB, RT, OG, RB, S, CB, LB, MLB, DE, NT, CB, NB, LT, C, TE, Slot WR, WR, SS, OLB...

There literally isn't a position we're set at

We have one elite player on the entire roster in Brown, but after that, there honestly isn't a player locked into a single starting spot as of this moment outside of Thielen, Bryce, and Horn.  One of whom is likely already a bust that we're forced to start, another hasn't been able to stay healthy, and Thielen is a slot WR who has maybe 1 or 2 years left in his career.

Even Moton isn't locked in as they could decide to cut their losses due to the cap hit if they can't re-work a deal.  Ickey isn't locked in at LT as they could end up moving him to LG.  And on defense, outside of Burns and Horn, I'm not sure we even have any average starters, so nobody is locked in to any spot yet.

Just now, MHS831 said:

Probably a good point--but something is holding this up.  If other teams are involved, it would also be a waste of everyone's time to have a contract worked out before a trade was in place--I assume that Burn's agent gave the Giants a ballpark figure, and the devil is in the details.  I dunno because nobody does.

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean they had a full agreement already ironed out and in place, but they 100% already had a high level discussion and agreement on relative compensation.

There would be no point in the teams working out a deal, only to find out the Giants and Burns were too far apart to come to a deal.

It would literally waste everyone's time, the Panthers, the Giants, and Burns, so it just would never have gotten to this point unless the Giants and Burns were at least in the same ballpark.  While at the same time, the Panthers and Giants also had to be in the same ball park of compensation for it to get to this point.

None of that is to say it can't fall apart in the end, it's just saying that the threat of Burns blowing the deal up by refusing to sign his franchise tender so they can complete the trade, is a complete non-starter, as they're too far into the process for that to even be a concern to any party.

Just now, MHS831 said:

Brian Burns actually could refuse to sign the tag, if I am not mistaken. They have to agree on a long term contract.  New york looking for someone to play opposite Thibideaux (Sp).   With the #6 pick, they can get a QB. 

Burns is the only person who can stump this deal.  The Giants did not re-sign Barkley, letting him go to a division rival. Now that the news of this gets out, their fans will storm the castle if they dont make it happen.  They have the cap room (I just saw $38m--dont know how updated it is)

This is all completely moot

There is a 0% chance that either the Giants or Panthers are discussing any deal, let alone deep into negotiations, if the Giants and Burns haven't talked and come to a general agreement on a contract extension, as it would be a complete waste of everyone's time if that wasn't already done.

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

How do you feel about us throwing 100mil at a guard?

 

I know you were big on not spending big money this year.

Yea, I saw your post and chose to ignore it because it was stupid

I never once said we shouldn't be spending money, I've said time and time again that we need to spend it wisely.

No, I don't love paying that much for a guard, but he fits the mold of who I said we should be spending on, someone young enough that can be a good player for not only this contract, but still young enough to sign another with us when this one is done.

I was against throwing enough money at Ridley to come here instead of going to a contender, as his age at his position doesn't make him likely to be even elite for the length of a 3-4 year contract, let alone sign another after.

Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

I can deal with a 1st next year. We could be in a Bears situation with 2 top 5 picks.

 

Draft Sanders and the top WR. Hire Deion as HC.

 

*Just messing with you Linville. That would be your worst nightmare huh?

I think you are joking here, but that wouldn't be a nightmare scenario, it would be the final nail in the coffin of this franchise.

It would mean firing a coach for the 3rd straight year, to hire a guy who is NOT an NFL coach, his style won't work with NFL players, it only can work with college kids.  And then you'd be drafting his son and thus locking yourself into a situation for 3 years where you can't fire the coach no matter how bad it goes because it would then basically make your QB refuse to play for you if you did.

That's all also before even taking into consideration that Sanders is nowhere near as good as the hype around him is, if he was as good as the hype, Colorado wouldn't have been as bad as they were this year

1 minute ago, Shocker said:

In what world?

If we don't get a 1st plus more for Burns, then we're making a bad trade, period.  I know the fans here don't think he's worth it, but the NFL does, and that's all that matters, the teams in the league view Burns in an absurdly better light than 99.99% of the fans here.

And the Bengals 100% would take a 1st in exchange for Higgins who has asked to be traded, it doesn't sound like he has any interest in playing on the tag there there year.

Really what we should be looking for is their 1st next season and their second 2nd rounder from this year.

Then try to flip the 1st for Higgins

Do we even have a 2nd best defensive player now after Brown?

Honestly, who is the 2nd best player on this defense if you remove both Burns and Luvu?

Probably Horn in reality, but given his injury history, not sure if you can consider him that, really don't know who would be next in line.

Just now, App Panther said:

My guess is a 2nd and 4th. 

If that's what we get, Morgan should be fired immediately

Our fans are stupid, the league values Burns WAY more than 99% of the fans on here, that would be a god awful return on him.

They aren't giving up their 1st this year, so unless we get their 1st next year as part of a deal, I'm going to be furious.

Two 2nd's is not the trade to make, I'd rather trade him for 1 pick towards the end of the 1st round than the two 2nd's

It's the exact same mistake we made with the CMC trade in taking the point value based on the stupid draft chart.  You can't do that with players of this caliber, it doesn't add up on the field.

4 hours ago, ChuckWag78 said:

Exactly. He made plays every week. People saying he isn't a #1 didn't watch him at all last year. 

I've said it so many times before on here, but far too many people confuse being an NFL #1 with being a fantasy #1

So they only look at a WR #1 as someone who is a top 10-12 player at their position, even if there are 32 starters in the NFL at that position.

Sure, everyone wants a Top 10 player at any position, but only 10 teams in the league have one of those

BTW, this is also coming from someone who is a big fan of Ridley's play on the field.  I think he's outstanding and even bet my fantasy season on pairing him with Lawrence this past year, I way overpaid for them in my auction draft as I think he's a stud.

My view on it is really more around Bryce and that I think he's a bum that we'll be replacing as early as next year if we don't get a player like Ridley.  And if we get a player like Ridley, we'll be replacing Bryce in 2-3 years, which at that time, Ridley's game will be fading due to his age.

Put the money into younger players that can still be around and playing at a high level when we finally right the ship

6 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

How much are you willing to pay him?

I don't know the number I'd be comfortable with as much as I know it won't be as high as it would take to sign him.

But I'm also in the camp of belief that Bryce can't be fixed, at least not to the point of being an elite QB that you can contend for championships with.  

I'd rather not get a top WR this year and suck because of that, while putting us in a position to draft a Bryce replacement, than sign a WR who only has 2-3 years of top level play left and watch them turn Bryce into an average game manager and set back when we can actually re-build another 3-5 years because of it.

Again, for me with him, it's his age and the contract we'd need to give him.  If he was in the 24-26 age range to where he could realistically have 5-7 years of high end play with us, then I'd be much more for it.

For me it's the very high level view of things, Ridley seems like a quick fix to one problem that will only create multiple and worse other problems in a year or two.  Which is something we have to stop doing, we need to build smart, not look for quick fixes as they never work for a team needing a full on rebuild.

30 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Ridley is a upgrade over anything we have. I agree on a reasonable deal we should pursue it. I'm not expecting him to get crazy money, but you never know in the NFL.

He's going to get crazy money

There isn't another elite WR on the non franchise tag FA market this year, the next best WR is Hollywood Brown, who isn't even remotely in the same league as Ridley is.

That combined with the unexpected cap increase, someone will give him a monster contract, no doubt about it.  Hence my concern with signing him, because for him to sign with us over basically any other team in the league, we're going to need to go above and beyond the other deals offered to him.

Which to me, doesn't make sense given his age.

I'm very torn on going after Ridley and think I'd prefer us not to in the end.  Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great WR and in a vacuum I'd love to have him, but for me there is a serious concern in both what it will take to sign him and the long term implications of it.

Even though he's only played 4.5 seasons, he's already 29 and turns 30 before the next season will end.

This is his only chance at signing a big contract given his age and he will have plenty of suitors out there trying to get him, many of them with legit contending chances, like the Jags resigning him or even someone like KC going after him.

If he's going to pass up signing with a contender to sign with us, it's because we dropped a massive bag at his feet to do so and he couldn't turn it down because he won't get another chance at big FA money.

If we're going to massively overpay for a WR, it shouldn't be one who turns 30 this year and only has a couple years left before age starts to catch them, it should be someone younger who can be here for 5-7 years.

Dropping a bag at a 29 year old WR's feet is something you do when they're the final piece of a puzzle to contend, not your hail mary pass to try and save your awful QB's career when you have TONS of other holes on the team.  As even if he were to help turn Bryce around, in 2-3 years he won't be an elite WR anyways and if he's the only reason Bryce was moderately successful during that time, we'd be right back in the same place as we are now, a QB who needs an elite WR to be successful, but without an elite WR on the roster.

Find a way to overpay Aiyuk, Higgins, Pittman, etc, before doing it with someone like Ridley at his age.

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

You think Cleveland is paying attention? 

His cap hits are $63 million a year the rest of his contract.  He’d have a $200 million dead cap if cut this year and $136 million if they cut him next year.

The only thing they could do if they wanted to move on from him during these next 2 years is to just bench him.

Even to get rid of him the next year would be a $72 million dead cap hit.

Worst contract ever

38 minutes ago, CRA said:

Wilson is quirky and old.  I would imagine him finding a home might be tougher than he thinks. 

Quirky yes, but not old, at least not in modern NFL QB standards for a player with his pedigree, he should have a few more solid years left in him (I don't think he was all that bad this past year, he just had a horrible team around him and a coach who was purposefully tanking on him so he could have a justified reason to do exactly this).

The quirky part is the bigger issue in finding a landing spot.

The fact that former teammates have come out and talked about how he doesn't give out his cell phone to even offensive teammates, that they have to go through his agent to talk to him, is SUPER weird, for any NFL player, let alone a QB.

It's about the antithesis for what today's QB's should be doing and is the reason I wouldn't want anything to do with him if I was a team looking for a QB, even if I do think he still has a few decent years left in him.

I'd have been all for this move after last season, but I'm less certain of it after this year.

He's had injury issues his whole career, but he just played in all but 1 game this season.

No, he's not an all pro corner out there, but he's more than serviceable as a #2 if he can stay on the field like he did this past season

8 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That's a Madden trade. No one is biting on that in the real world, unfortunately.

7 hours ago, csx said:

What drugs are you assuming they are doing in Detroit?

I actually think the Detroit side of it is very reasonable now due to the unexpected cap increase, however the same cap increase means the flipping of the pick for one of those 2 WRs is less likely to happen.

This board is much higher on Jameson than actual Lions fans are, they still like his potential, but they're much closer to giving up on him than expecting him to be a future star.  I'm from Detroit and most of my Lions friends still talk about that as a possibility, mainly because they don't think Jameson has the hands to become a great WR and is mostly going to end up as a speed/gadget type of player.

2 weeks ago they'd have been less likely to make the move as signing Burns would have been difficult, but the unexpected cap room makes it much more doable for them now.

However that same cap increase is also why the 49ers and Bengals are more likely to try and keep their WRs for one more year as each player's contract isn't far off from the unexpected cap increase amount, so they have a path to keeping those players for another season before needing to move them.

On 3/1/2024 at 4:57 AM, kungfoodude said:

Literally the same reason people ars always interested in a QB on a rookie deal, they think they can salavage it. Remember Sam Darnold? How did that work out?

 

I'll give you some homework, find me an underperforming top 10 QB that has ever been traded during their rookie deal and ever turned it around. 

Spoiler alert: You are gonna find out that this doesn't happen. 

Not exactly a fair question for this situation though.

Pretty much any Top 10 picked QB that gets traded during their rookie contract, is doing so because they already look like a bust.  Most aren’t even traded, but cut, outside of Darnold, Lance, and Rosen, no other recent trades come to mind while still on their rookie deal.

This is a very unique situation where they lucked into the top pick of a draft with a generational prospect.  If this was last years class and coming off the season Fields just had, they wouldn’t be looking to trade Fields right now.

Jameson and their 1st rounder

Then send that 1st rounder to the 49ers or Bengals for Aiyuk or Higgins and sign them to an extension.

Aiyuk, Thielen, Jameson, Mingo would be a real nice Top 4

VERY hard pass on Hollywood Brown, he's barely a #2, let alone a #1.  He couldn't even get on the same page to put up good numbers with his college QB.  He'd just be a repeat of Chark, signing a #2/3 with the hope they can be a #1, basically, a mistake.

Only way I'd be okay with signing him is if we end up with a true #1 and then he can't get the contract he's looking for and comes here on a 1 year deal for like $5 million to be our #2 (which isn't happening).

I'd love Ridley, but I don't think the Jags will let him go, nor would he want to leave Lawrence to come play with Bryce.

Realistically, our only shot at a true #1 WR this offseason is trading Burns for a 1st and change and then flipping that pick for Aiyuk, Higgins, or a Tyreek/Diggs type of situation where a player is traded instead of given a new contract, like maybe DK Metcalf.