Loyalty4Life

Steve has trouble being reserved and hiding his faults. Doesn't excuse a single thing he's done regarding fighting team mates or cheating on his wife but it does make him human. He faced the consequences of those actions and there's a lot of room to argue he caught off lite in some instances. Doesn't make him the devil nor should he be considered a Saint. I don't know the dude but he's brought me a lot of happy times and good memories as a Panther fan. I wish all of the people I looked up to or admired didn't do things that are bad but as an adult I realize that isn't remotely realistic.

Why are people acting like there is a path to winning the draft? Is doesn't matter if you're drafting on measurables, college production or potential, especially in the top half of the first round. Teams with all the resources in the world hit on a top 10 picks roughly about 40% of the time. This doesn't mean teams can't get some advantage. Teams are slightly better than random chance at selecting the right player that will be average or better in the NFL. I really like Walker but I've put some time in researching Mykel Williams and there is a lot to like. Physical traits are off the chart. He's 20 and already very good. He has a low snap count because Georgia is deep so they rotate a lot of elite talent. This also bears out historically as many Georgia players have better NFL stats. He gets consistent pressure relative to his snap count. Really good against the run. Perfect fit for Evero and our defensive system. Canales and thus the Panthers are a developmental type coaching staff. Lines up every everywhere from 4i to edge. (4i is inside the tackles inside shoulder and shows big time hybrid DT skills, again is perfect for Evero) In the SEC title game against Texas he had 2 sacks and 5 qb pressure. I'd love him here as a Panther.

You're probably right but I like this story better. But I'll give him his due. He built a few good teams but we will never consistent. Could have been a lot better but it could have been a lot worse.

People need to get out of here with that Marty Hurney 1st round draft pick success crap. It was only by sheer and utter complete luck he didn't trade Cam Newton for Jimmy Clausen.

Smoke

Horn deal looking better and better. Brandt Tilis might be my new favorite Panther.

Not a top 10 QB? You can't see me face palming but I am. Here are some metrics. Low target rate. In fact, it's elite. QB's don't like to test him. Elite Passer rating when he is targeted. Elite completion % allowed. Elite in yards allowed after catch. Elite at forced incompletions. Great against the run. In 2022 he was #1 in more than a few of these areas and top 3 in a bunch more. He rated at the very tippy top as an athlete. 9.99 on the relative athletic score.

Let's really look at Horn. His contract is in the middle of guaranteed money for top corners. He's 24 so his prime years are ahead of him. 11-12% of the projected cap is reasonable for a top CB Like all market setting contracts fans clutch their pearls but the rate at which the salary cap goes up makes it much more palatable. His stats compared to guaranteed money isn't very good and could be seen as overpaid regarding that data point but these are his stats on a bad defense. Everyone knows CB stats are heavily related to pass rush so I'm not worried over this one. Injury history doesn't bother me too much as they were more fluke injuries and were not repeated injuries to the same body part or real indicators of future injuries. His contract is fair and par for the course in the NFL for top CB's. Any other team in our position would have done this same deal. You don't let elite talent walk out the door, especially considering the lack of options.

I hate when people compare player based on avg salary. There are so many other variables that make a difference. Length of contract Guaranteed money Guaranteed money as a % of the overall contract Salary cap Age Contract structure Contract timing Market value I'm also a big believer in market scarcity and supply and demand. Teams can't decide to get a elite player whenever they want because they not available very often.

Overthecap has all of them but Wharton's just came out.

For sure. I was more pointing out overall. Wharton has 30 mil gtd vs Miltons 51. Wharton 3 years vs Miltons 4. The dead money is you want to get out of the contract after 2 years. Milton's is well structured too with a crap ton of incentives. It's just much bigger than what we gave Wharton/Brown. I'm glad to see we have a ceiling, even players we really want.

They're back loaded because the salary cap goes up every year and the last crop of FA from 2-3 years ago are getting their money. It's a fluid situation.

Man, Brandt Tillis is already earning his paycheck. I love how he structures contracts in length and ability to get out if it turns out the player isn't worth it and we need to cut bait. Compare Wharton and Browns contracts together vs Milton Williams. I really wish we could see the breakdown of the what the Panthers offered him cause Milton made bank.

I don't think anyone would argue about the potential of XL, Coker and Sanders. We're in the bottom because we have very young weapons. The entire offense is a work in progress so I don't put very much stock in where our receiving core ranks. What I do care about is projecting going forward but that is much more subjective. I think Coker is going to be somewhere between Moose and Smitty. I still see a ton of upside with XL and the team is still trying to figure out how best to use him. Adam T. is just a smooth vet and we we definitely need that. It took a bit for Sanders to get going and when it looked like he was really showing out, he got injured. He's a guy who looks like he's really putting in the work but still too early to tell how big of a weapon he could be for Bryce but he's shown enough to be a starter. Do we need a #1 WR? Of course but I don't know that he isn't already on the team. I wouldn't be mad if we draft one in the first round because it's all about the best that's available and I mean that literally. What positions can we upgrade and what are we passing over if we do take a WR in the first. I feel comfortable with a number of options be it trading for a #1 WR, drafting one in the 1st round or rolling with what we have (with some added depth, a la Moore). Any of those options allow us to compete and progress towards becoming a winning organization year in and year out.

XL runs a 4.39 in the 40 yard dash.

Tackle machine. When Morgan said we wanted Dawgs he wasn't kidding. Most of these signings look like blue collar hard hitting smart football players.

Fantastic thread and thank you for breaking down the positions. I love when guys do that as when fans know what we require from our personal and what the SAM LB does in a 3-4 it gives one a much better idea of who fits. If the draft falls right and we get a DT in the 1st or 2nd round I think we'll cut Robinson. He's run stopping insurance and can play both DE and DT. Evero will have a ton of different looks and formations. I think we really want a strong rotation, a la the Eagles. Wharton/Brown = Milton Williams. The details of Wharton's deal have not been shown yet except that 30 mil is guaranteed so at worse it's a 2 year/30 mil deal but heavily incentive laden to make it to that 52 so the deal will end up much better than what it looks like at first glance. We obviously need a starting FS. Considering our safety needs, defensive scheme and that he played under Evero in Denver, I'm shocked we have not already signed Justin Simmons. He is getting up there in age but he'd be a great stopgap with tons of experience. While we do need a #1 WR I think there is a good chance XL or Coker can turn into that. If the BPA is Tet at 8 and we can't trade back or we trade back and a top WR like Egbuka in the mid 1st. Trade back is my 1st option because of the large number of edge talent in the 1st round. Carter, Mason and Hunter are the only guys that would make me not want to trade back. Jalon Walker is the guy I really want. I think his skill and intelligence are elite. He's a true hybrid which Evero would love. He can also be a defense defining type player. Stewart, Williams, Pearce, Green at edge would all be great additions. If somehow Kenneth Grant, Walter Nolan drop to the 2nd I would run to turn in my draft card but I would not be mad at Alfred Collins or Deone Walker for a true run stopping nose tackle. One of these guys could even fall to the 3rd round.

Amen and Hallelujah!!!

Damn that sucky ass Morgan. Redoing a deal to get great value at a position of need. He can still play nose tackle if needed and added some depth for DE. I value his experience in this type of system and hopefully teaching Brown and who ever we probably end up drafting. With his size, he's much more about technique than pure size.

Very happy with this signing. Still young enough at 27 to continue to develop. He's a good tackler and corner run support is a must in Evero's system. Tall and physical.

We missed out on Williams so we ended up with two guys in Wharton and Bobby Brown who combine to replicate the skill set Williams has. Wharton has pass rush moves but is weaker against the run and Brown is true nose tackle. It's a solid plan B after missing out on Williams. More personal groups and less versatility but probably better in core run defense. Better time of possession, a safety who excels at run stopping, and better personal fits and I'm liking what the run defense is shaping up to be. I remember reading somewhere that Fangio's system can take a bit to develop a strong run D as it is a complex system.

Moehrig has five interceptions and 18 passes defensed over the past two seasons, but he has also shown considerable growth when coming forward to make plays, with three sacks and five quarterback hits over the span. Since 2023, Moehrig is a top-15 safety in interceptions, forced incompletion rate, tackles for loss or no gain and defensive stops. source: PFF I did like Holland more because of his pass coverage but Moehrig is not a consolation prize. In 21 he was in more of cover 3 type scheme and then the last 3 years he's been a better fit and played much better in Patrick Graham's defense which is more multiple. Fangio/Evero run a 2 high safety shell that rotates the safeties in all kinds of confusing ways. A lot of match coverage (zone that turns into man based on what routes the other team runs) and disguised coverage. So, he'll play all over the field, cover deep, man up the slot, play the run, etc. He's 25 and gotten better every year and I expect he'll be even better in Evero's system. He's now the 5th highest paid safety by yearly average but the total value is much less than almost everyone in the top 10. He is not overpaid but it's not a given he'll be worth the contract. He'll have to continue to excel and play like he did at the end of last year where from Weeks 16 to 18, Moehrig’s 83.3 overall grade ranked sixth among safeties.

Would have loved having him here but there number is the number and if another team backs up the money truck so we either don't want or can't match it. Sucks.

Google how the safety position works in a 2-high shell defense. Google how important the safety position is in a Vic Fangio (Evero) type defense. Then 90% of the people in this thread can come back and edit their thoughts.