Vagrant

what would be the point of saying you're going to do this right now without actually doing it? not saying it's 100% garbage, but this kind of thing is what you have to do if you're trying to prevent a leapfrog trade in a year where moving around the first round shouldn't be all that expensive. 

1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

I was with you until you said Mayfield. 

less of a want and more of an expectation, honestly. hell, the browns might even want Darnold as a temporary starter if Watson faces supplemental discipline from the league or isn't reinstated. stranger things have happened. both teams don't want to pay these guys. 

they're clearing the deck for salary because the draft interest in a QB is smoke and with a LT that can play at 6, our team looks competitive on paper minus a QB that we trade to get. We want someone to leapfrog us for Willis so we can get our pick of tackles at 6. Mayfield? 

this is how you turn a nothing event into people talking about jackson state on television and giving the program more exposure for future recruits who are going to be like, "damn, deion is going to fight that hard for me when its my time." and secure a few extra talents by manipulating the media with his reputation. the real story is that there were that many teams that actually showed up to his three ring circus despite having no obvious NFL talent.

59 minutes ago, stirs said:

How about a wild card pick with Jordan Davis at 6?  After we sign Armstead of course.

now that we are keeping derrick brown for sure, davis would be a bit overkill at the position. i think the idea was to pair brown with someone who can play the three technique like matt ioannidis has who can rush the passer and can get thin enough to take advantage of other teams needing extra help on brown. think some version of star and kk short with brown playing star. for all the edge pressure we got last season with burns, haynes, and reddick we didn't get much from the tackle beside brown. davis is probably going to play over the ball a bit like brown. 

19 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've watched Willis, and I can honestly tell you he's not anywhere near the level of college athlete that any of the people you named were.

I get the comparisons and playing style, but Young, Jackson, Murray and Newton were all much more effective against far better competition.

I just don't see it.

I don't know if we're disagreeing to be honest. the question is always going to be how much transfers of that talent and if that talent can be applied. but in terms of raw clay, he's in rare air. the arm strength and the speed combination he has just doesn't appear a lot inside the same body. they're unicorns. they're tangible measures of abilities that are correlative to success, but they aren't success. his raw clay value is what has him in the conversation at all.

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's examples on pretty much an annual basis, going way back.

Akili Smith was an amazing athlete too. And heck, I think about six different teams tried to make something out of Jeff George.

both of those guys had amazing arms, it's true. some of the best arm talent ever, but neither had game impacting speed. they were nimble especially for their time, but they were no randall cunningham. he's the first that I remember that could legitimately hurt you both ways. malik willis has the potential to be one of those handful of guys like steve young, cam newton, lamar jackson, kyler murray that can for periods of time can feel unstoppable if they get the defense off balance and the play calls are right. it remains to be seen if he has the ability to hurt you with his arm but the velocity says there's a chance. the feet certainly say there's a chance on the ground. he's a lottery ticket. in five years he will either be considered a bust or be one of the NFL's most dangerous weapons. there's not a lot in between. 

16 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That...hasn't really proven true in the past.

There have been plenty of athletic quarterbacks drafted with the idea that somebody could teach them how to read defenses and throw accurate passes only to see them massively bust at both.

Whether or not Willis will pan out? Don't know, but his athleticism doesn't guarantee a thing.

there's just not that many examples. vick is probably the closest we've seen that could do both of those things but vick was left handed and he had very little touch. sincerely, if malik willis plays a snap next season he's going to be the fastest QB to do so. who else has had the skillset? 

16 minutes ago, ImaginaryKev said:

I swear ppl can't spot talent

you just posted a video of a player who moves like ben roethlisberger next season. 

16 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Don’t let the media hype fool you Willis is a project who’ player projection is Jalen Hurts 

Not sure what everyone has against Pickett but the guy is calm under pressure, accurate, and processes very well 

He just doesn’t have a huge arm but you can win with a guy like Pickett 

 

willis can probably run a 4.4 and throws 75 mph. even if he was brain dead you could teach that to be something, but he also scored a 32 on the wonderlic. 

it would be such a panthers move to not draft what will become one of the fastest quarterbacks in league history who throws rockets for a guy with tiny hands that played five years of college football to become anything better than average and will be 24 to start the season. 

here's a funny stat for you... pickett is 13th all time in snaps taken in college football history. here are the other quarterbacks in the top 15: timmy chang, case keenum, dan lefevour, landry jones, luke falk, brad smith, graham harrell, colt mccoy, and our boy kenny. luke mccown, sam ehlinger, and kevin kolb round out the list of players that have taken 2,000 snaps or more.

the panthers chased the hottest girl in school around for 2 years and ended up going to the prom alone. there was no team more loyal to their interest in watson than this team and he still wanted no part of it. not only that, but his final 2 destinations are division rivals. this should kill the "tepper gets what he wants" narrative for good. it should also kill the "rhule is a great recruiter" narrative as well. this group planted their flag on his front lawn when every other team watched cautiously. 

the good thing for fans is that this deal would have been a disaster. giving up 6th overall, former top 10 pick horn, former 1st round pick burns, and two more first round picks likely in the 5th to 15th range with as swiss cheese as our roster would be without all that is a stone cold dumb idea for any single player who is at BEST on the fence about coming here and has HIGHLY questionable leadership and character concerns. It borders on nonsensical. you can't cheat the rebuild and you can't finish the rebuild without finding the quarterback and you're not going to find him in someone else's garbage can. 

This is franchise suicide. If they gave up HALF this much for a player in his situation it would raise my eyebrow. Are they serious? Are we seriously entertaining this? Let them hold him another inactive season and see how that changes his price. My goodness we are bidding against ourselves. 

I think by virtue of missing an entire season and the potential existing for a lengthy suspension when he is reinstated (amid the chatter about Ridley's ridiculous full season suspension, this could be a bigger deal for the NFL to "prove it" than previously considered) his value has cratered. As teams that are competitive start to fill their QB needs and the buyers list gets slimmer, not even Watson taking over his old job in Houston seems tenable anymore with the excitement they have for Davis Mills. GB is out. Seattle is rebuilding. Broncos are out. Miami is out. Where is the interest that would create a Wilson-like return? 

Do we do something with Houston that looks like CMC and our 2023 1st? Perhaps. But the talk of multiple first round picks, etc. died on the day the decision was made to punt on trading him last season when he could have served his suspension and been ready to go to start this year. Now, trading for him is a 2 year commitment in a league with no memory for a player who hasn't played a snap for ages. All of this before we even talk about the moral and ethical responses around the league and in the fanbase. Can he just show up on Day 1 and take a locker room back? How is he going to be received by his peers? 

I still think the biggest mistake the Texans made was not trading him last season. Now, everyone has eyes for finding their Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Mac Jones, etc. and doing a 2-year turnaround with a franchise guy. Not waiting a full year for a starter and having to insert him midseason (or later) basically promising a rough adjustment for a player who will then have not taken a snap in 2 years. 

At this stage, taking on Watson is more of a rebuild move than drafting a QB at 6 with how the league has moved towards Day 1 starters with expectations right away. 

the good news or bad news if you're a fan of willis is that his stock has probably risen enough to put him on detroit's radar. it's starting to become a narrative year after year that the guys who win the combine and convince organizations that they're natural leaders rise up the board really quickly. willis has aced the interviews and his wonderlic was fantastic. i think he'll be gone by 6 because few of the guys projected to go ahead of him have had explosive improvements

the tea leaves seem to be pointing towards pickett, but there's a few reasons i don't think we go that route. if we're truly going in the direction of being a down hill running team, we need a qb that can add to that attack. desmond ridder knocked it out of the park. he's a 4 year starter that is still about 2 years younger than pickett and his efficiency was fantastic. he's a true quarterback. his numbers weren't highly attached to his running ability and that matters. if anything, he was probably too conservative with his legs as a senior trying to prove he could stay in the pocket. he's a big kid and he's a winner. and for those that it matters to, he has 10 inch hands. the book on him prior to the combine was that he was good at most things but not great at many, but the 40 might have changed some minds. he takes his time with reads and will probably need to be introduced to the NFL in parts and pieces, but he will move the ball. he'll be very dangerous in pulling the ball out and flipping it over the middle. 

during the senior bowl they legitimately said that he was going to have his hands stretched leading up to the combine. 

Vern Carey needs an opportunity. It's weird he didn't get a better look here. Top 5 in the country out of HS, 18 ppg in 1 season at Duke. 32nd overall pick. I know we're trying to compete, but I wish he could have gotten more burn before we made this call. 18.5 ppg and 8 rpg 2.5 apg in the g league. 

people are so dumb saying JB needs to go about stuff like this. this dude has a long way to go in development and should probably be in the G league. hopefully this gets him sent down so he can develop. jumping up at the coach shooting 36% on the season. damn near dead last on the team and a rookie. how much should you be playing, james? 

My takes on the QBs

Willis - Unicorn talent. Arm strength is insane. Is in the class with Lamar Jackson and Michael Vick in the speed department. Can he be consistent enough in the short passing game to not have to rely upon his legs? Backyard quarterback who might defy the structure of a traditional system, but has the upside to run his own offense heavy on RPO and improvisation. Important as it pertains to Carolina, can really help his offensive line with his ability to make the first man miss. Will give teams who depend on their EDGE for the majority of their pass rush trouble. Troubling completion percentages his fault or a product of limited amount of skill around him at smaller program? Will never be a pocket passer that works through progressions. Has the potential to change his team's fortunes from Day 1 with his legs apologizing for what he lacks in reading defenses. Will benefit from how Lamar Jackson is deployed as a guiding reference. 

Pickett - Fifth-year Senior with gobs of experience. Has earned his stripes over a full college career. Limited in every way by his lack of physical tools. Can move the pocket, but will never be a runner at the next level due to average athleticism. What changed in year 5? High floor prospect who will be a coveted backup at minimum, but his upside is Top 15 league starter. Virtually no chance to reach the lofty heights. Game manager? Will need a supporting cast to compete. Can spread the ball around and get multiple players involved. Won't fixate on his first read. Quarterback from the neck up. Will start right away. Baker Mayfield ceiling?  

Matt Corral - Stands up in the pocket and delivers hard strikes. Needs playcalling rhythm to be at his best. Timing thrower with confidence. Fearless. Strong fundamentals. Rarely off-balance. Will need to be synched with both his receivers and his coaching. Will play his best in RPO/West Coast style offense. Gets the ball out quickly and has strong short to medium accuracy. Moves the ball methodically. Can he drop back or will he be limited? Has a lot to prove in his ability to read defenses and make downfield plays. Will be ready Day 1. 

there's a lot of high risk throws in that package. he has a fantastic arm, obviously, but whoever put this together didn't put in a lot of plays when he had to work through progressions. he threw a lot of guys open with deep balls. he seems good at timing throws, but to me it looks like he's sitting on one route and just putting the best ball he can in that direction instead of finding something higher percentage. that's going to get you a lot of attention from NFL safeties watching your eyes. he reminds me of jacob eason last year. 

I think when enough time has passed we will remember this as Cam's farewell. With how he played here, I doubt he's going to draw a lot of interest to get another starting gig considering how long he was out there this season. His return for me was less about Rhule, Fitterer, Tepper, etc. as it was about Cam and the fanbase. We got our proper goodbye. It was special even more so because it felt separate from this current drama. 

For those doubting we'll get an elite offensive guy, do you remember what happened the last time the owner wanted someone badly? Like, $60 plus million badly? 

Rhule isn't safe. His departure from this team is part of a 2 year plan. He gets to close this season out for the tank. They're going to bring in an OC with NFL pedigree and take that side of the ball away from Rhule entirely. There's two reasons for it. One is that the original staff that Rhule brought with him had virtually ZERO coaches with legitimate NFL experience and as a result, couldn't lean on their history to convince their offensive players that they were still in the game plan. Rhule's biggest mistake in my opinion was his staff selection. I would almost be willing to bet that whatever higher profile offensive play caller we bring in is also going to be something on paper that indicates the line of succession will go through them. Associate Head Coach, or some other variation of the term. 

Our QB situation became by degrees harder to solve with Darnold's 5th year option being picked up. I think he goes into next season in a competition with a QB we draft in the 3rd or 4th round. He'll get 3 or 4 games and if he falters again, Rhule will be fired and Darnold will be done. Whoever our OC is will take over as interim head coach, try to see what they have in the rookie and try not to worry too much about the record in order to set us up to draft the solution with an entirely new regime, cap space galore, and a damn solid defensive core to build on. It will be a high profile destination next offseason, but not this one with as muddled as the waters are now and the fact that we're kind of married to Darnold for one more season. 

I think we might see some big movement as far as players are concerned that don't fit the window of the rebuild. the only reason to keep Rhule at this point is to allow him to close out the 5th year option they gave to Darnold and be bad enough next year to be in striking range to draft a QB in a much better class than this one. You don't want a new hire in that situation. Let Rhule start the year 0-3 and then fire him and promote someone to head coach that can finish the tank job. that way, we can lure a head coach here with a ridiculous amount of cap space after Darnold and .... as sad as it is for me to say it, CMC come off the books somehow. the new coach should have a highly regarded QB prospect and a young defense that can develop into one of the best in football with few changes. 

in my opinion, the choice on rhule has already been made. they just need someone to point the titanic at the iceburg and they don't want that guy to be their new hire for obvious reasons. 

CMC is like crack to everyone in his orbit. if he's out there on the field, everyone wants the ball in his hands because he makes things happen. he's so good at what he does that it's dangerous for him. he has never had a coach with the self control to put him on a pitch count and stick to it.  

honestly though, it's like his "problem" is the same as Luke's problem. they are full effort on every snap and have no instinct of self-preservation. the level of performance they demand from themselves forces their bodies to give up because they're mentally relentless on it.