magnus

I would like Izzo and also Tracy Smith.   I know Canales was leaning toward a team full of nothing but other peoples' third tier assistants but a few guys with experience doing anything in the past at their current job level is also welcome. 

No idea why Idzik is being a pain, it's not like Tampa is holding him, right?  He's not ... sorry but any level of high value asset. 

16 hours ago, jb2288 said:

Question: why would this happen after the draft? Seems it would be imperative you get your new scouting team in place before the draft as to not “waste” another draft. Unless there just isn’t enough time to do that transition in Feb

The college scouting year is draft to draft, so a lot of movement happens in the front office right after the draft.   Scouts, personnel guys, their season is, for the most part 'done' and now you're looking to 2025, but already have some ground work done there I'm sure.   So it's a good time to jump to a new team, it's a good time to fire guys you don't want or hire guys you do. 

In the past - consider Pat Stewart was hired after a draft, Dan Morgan after a draft, Adrian Wilson after a draft.   GMs sometimes get fired with coaches, and you're not going to have a draft with no front office, but for a new GM, that first draft can be a little run-what-you-brung.

Coaches happen right after the season but their contracts technically run league year to league year. 

On 1/31/2024 at 8:34 PM, 4Corners said:

Wow check out the head athletic trainer Kevin King. 
 

You’d think he would be head of communications 

Come on guys.  Be better than that.   

You know after civil defense stopped using the long haul microwave network, you have to repurpose those towers.

On 1/31/2024 at 6:40 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Also, not that it likely matters to anybody but people like me and @magnus but the Panthers staff page now lists everybody down to the area scouts.

https://www.panthers.com/team/football-staff

Used to be you could only see info on those folks if you downloaded the media guide.

Especially trying to remember people from years' past. 

I think it's kinda cool that they actually list these guys out now.  I find it funky there's only one pro scout under two directors of pro scouting (all of which nebulously may be under Adrian Wilson, or Morgan?)

That said it's worth remembering that they just kinda make all these titles up.   Jeff Morrow had a new title every single year, possibly while turning down other jobs, or to reflect new responsibilities, before he went on to be a Senior scout.   Which I 

Everybody has a smattering of area scouts, national scouts.  I'm not sure why Carolina doesn't have someone sent to BLESTO or National services.    But anything above that, the titles are just whatever.   I've spent a lot of time staring at staff pages and I couldn't tell you why a "Player Personnel" guy generally outranks a pro or college director, how a guy like Pat Stewart would be a VP but not be under a President, how several different directors seem to have a head up on others.   

Maybe it's just negotiated, but hierarchy's absolutely just made up and nobody's ever really chosen to make such a thing standardized. 

If it's me, and I'm just some guy, but if Evero does not want to be here, I would rather start building with a staff that will be here long term. 

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Goodwin succeeded Russ Grimm in Pittsburgh, didn't he?

Seems to have had a long association with Bruce Arians that I imagine started there.

Yep. Arians moved up from WR and Grimm left.  To be fair Goodwin is listed as a third tier assistant in 07-09, not line coach.

Goodwin and Gilbert are not bad. They're good technicians.

Ideally we'd have guys who weren't 32nd in rushing though? 

18 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

 

I posted Frazier was on the team site still, at 7:30, and a few minutes later he was fired... Odd

John Lilly, Evero, and the defense are still there, with Canales 

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

That you, Mags? Hey, dude

Hey, man.  Yeah, it's me, I read when you talk about staff, you're the best at it I know. Hope you're well.

Getting Sanjay Lal and/or Chad Morton would be huge. 

Getting Tom Cable is interesting, I have no idea from where the Leslie Frazier thing is.   Would prefer Evero, but (opinion) it feels like this staff will be a fresh break.  I think there are a number of current and former Seahawk defensive minds you could draw from, but - I'm not sure that Canales is a guy who has to have tons of assistants he's worked with.   He brought only Idzik, I don't know how much latitude he had, and he hasn't been a lot of stops, being with SEA so long. 

that said, I come to bring the name of Steve Shimko, who assisted Canales with QBs and is now the OC at BC. 

https://absolutepanthers.blogspot.com/2024/01/guesses-on-next-staff.html

I was a lot more NASCAR than football at that point.  Never huge on DW.  But, once I had my NASCAR license, there was a deal at Hickory where the big man was signing autographs, I was still young so I was kinda into it, and they stuffed him in the ticket box (I also met a younger, still playing John Settle there, which was somewhat interesting for the two years he was actually around), which was up on a hill on the front stretch.  

Well you still gotta get out of there, and people crowded him, and he started to fall but my dad caught him. 

Race day, DW invited me to his hauler, and I had a couple gatorades with the ol' man before the race that year.  Given the date on my NASCAR license and the time of Neil Bonnett's death, that was 1993.   He was a hell of a guy, and being a famous stranger my dad's age, I didn't have a ton to say.   He was also, in retrospect, about done, another guy content to just ride and make millions, which honestly I can't blame, but it's an odd analogy.  

That guy, in 93, had been around 20 years in that sport.   You can't just mail in a top 20 in football, though.  And fan favorite DW, versus rough, fighting, championship DW, had a lot more miles on him.   

They have interesting, potentially polarizing personalities that grow on you, both he and Cam.  But fan favorites don't win championships.  Championship winners are polarizing to the people that don't love them.  They're the ones who, when they drive by, idiot redneck drunkards throw up birds at them and throw their chicken wings at.  

That's what we see with Cam.  Someone so d'amn good it pisses off other fans they're jealous they don't have him, because they know it's him that will take down their guy every week.  If you don't want to say that's the Earnhardt of that era, Waltrip himself was the baddy of the decade before it.

 

 

And for the love of all that is holy, please do not pretend last year's offensive scheme will work with the current Panthers personnel. 

 

And yet they're really just doing the same things, for the most part.  Power, two tight end football.   I want to say I have read some unstated, but still residual, Lee Ward pining in this post.  

It's entirely possible that they will again, after preseason's done.  He's on at least the PR unit, so he's gonna stand a good chance at the active roster as a WR.

yeah.  I'm not against the team being interested in the right waiver pickup or cheap vet.   But there's not some requirement to flood this team with upgrades that aren't coming.  Norwood not being satisfying enough for the screamers doesn't change a lot.  Three or four receivers will play a meaningful role this season.  If they really feel like one can be better than their 3 or 4, they might make a move.  

And that's a good point about the long term.   This isn't a series of one year deals like last few years' rosters.  There will be guys next year.  There are guys now. 

all this hyperbole.  "no one's looking for a #1 here!"   "there are v8s out here and this team is just too stubborn to care!!1" Who are we complaining about that's just sitting there that's starting quality* or even high-level situational depth, that we haven't looked at? 

*the only relevant term - we can stop using code words for what you're saying you want

exactly. 

I don't know.  I think too many people buy into a "one player away" thing, are too willing to give up continual success for right now.   You field the best football team you can every year.  

And the people dying for a big trade for this or that would be the first in line to criticize how bad it was if/when it didn't work.

Not quite the news most Panthers fans were hoping for. 

But that's not how things work, of course.  They didn't trade for Norwood because they "missed" on Wayne.  They saw an opportunity.  This franchise isn't in business of doing the fans' bidding for name recognition at a position.  

I see a lot of discussion about drawing doubles, too, and sure, that'd be great.  A player who demands attention, and then can overcome that extra attention, would be fantastic.  But that's not at all realistic right now.  You want players who fill roles, can win one on one matchups.  

it's easy to throw out analytics when they don't agree with them.  That's why they're necessary - the same things that emotionally tell you Player X was really great, are the same reasons you can't rely on them to make business decisions.

This has real value. 

It might not grade "your" player well, but on average, it's a set of skilled eyes grading things like blocking in a way no one here can.  It doesn't mean, in 20 plays, for instance that a career is over.  Game 1 of preseason isn't the end-all, be-all determinant (I saw a "cut Ealy" in the other thread and an all but "it's OK that Lee Ward had a -1" - turns out falling off your man in the hole isn't universally accepted) of a player's career.   Right now, positive is a nice thing to have, but a few negatives aren't catastrophic.

he does play a ton of special teams, and he would've been very helpful when they ended up having to keep Olsen in to block.  Tolbert is a tremendous run, pass blocker and a weapon on both offense and special teams.  

I know it's easy to get hyped for Ward, and I root for everyone.  He's talented.  But let's let him stand out on a Panthers football field before we give him a roster spot. 

Not really. 

The staff is somewhat conservative.  Yes, Rivera tends to succeed most when he deviates from that, but know that's what this team is - conservative.  This team is going to be able to do some things that you're gonna pretend you saw coming - on its way toward doing the necessary things like throw deep, run the ball, set up good 3rd downs.  

Shula isn't perfect, Ron's game management isn't perfect, but the end result is still better than most.  This team isn't somehow magically held back from being this tremendously wide open offense by Shula, it's what Ron wants.  With this defense, if you dump Ron, you probably have the same approach (provided a replacement doesn't ruin the defense).

​fair point.  They don't measure that, that I'm aware, in the NFL (or at least the media doesn't report it). 

valuable info, glad to see he wants to show others.  You have to have knowledge to pass it on. 

For what it's worth, Kelvin (34.75) doesn't have a ton more wingspan than Devin (33.5), but d'amned if it isn't a game of inches. 

when this first came out as a BBR hypothesis, I didn't like it either.  Yes, early 2014 Cam was a better passer than mid 2014 Cam, and there was a conspicuous lack of running there for obvious reasons in the early portion.  

But, Cam broke rookie records as a passer and rusher at the same time.  Negating his first three years to suggest that injured Cam is better than healthy Cam, I don't agree with that.   Mid-14 Cam had no running game around him, no protection, a defense that was suddenly starting to fail him, no special teams, and no receiving depth.   That Cam pressed (all the desperation throws v/s first NO), tried to do too much.  Which is fully the opposite of what he'd built himself into by mid-2012. 

That's the difference, to me. And he settled down when his team came together. 

If you want to argue that limiting his carries helps his health, maybe, but he wasn't healthy through either early '14 or after he started running.  It limits what a defense accounts for, if he's not a threat.  It limits who he is. 

Lines up all over the place? Not a Benjamin clone?

Damn it's almost like Dave knows what he's doing...

I don't know why people had concern that DF and KB would've been similar, because I would take about all the Kelvin Benjamins they'd let me have. Good on Funchess for being versatile though.