cranky

Rico walking is no big deal. I'll take a healthy 2024 Hubbard over Rico any time and losing Mays is, again, no a big deal. Young is signed for what, $35M for the next two years? Say he wants $50M but the FO doesn't. If they put the franchise tag on him, that would be around $55? So basically they are getting Young for the next 3 years for an average of $30M per year. Putting the franchise tag on him wouldn't be my first choice but it gives them an option that wouldn't be locking him into a long term, $50M contract. I'm not suggestion they do that. Just that the option will be there should they get to that point. Hunt is on a 5 year deal which is done in 28 so he either restructures or is gone anyway. Moton will be 35 by then and will either be gone or have diminished playing time. Neither of those players has anything to do with getting Young a contract. The O line is way overpaid anyway. Hopefully by the time they are gone, Freeling and Hecht will be developed and Ickey will be healthy. Young was benched his second year and only got his job back because Dalton was injured. Not sure how you can call that entitled. And I would NOT say putting a rookie QB on a team with no receivers, tight ends or O lineman and then being put with a coach who never wanted you and is fired mid season, is a definition of luck. As far as competition, no team is going to bring in competition for a QB picked first overall - especially given the capital that was given up to get him.

I just read "either" as implying he wouldn't be able to win in the NFL but whatever

Lawrence was way overpaid. True about QB comparisons. I was just pointing out having a pro bowl roster doesn't mean a QB is a failure if they don't win it all.

Ok...let's be accurate. Here is the complete paragraph. "If you plug Bryce onto the Pro Bowl roster you might have a chance to compete for a SB. If he's surrounded by top tier talent with a top tier defense on the other side, a field flipping punter, and a kicker good from 60+ you might have a chance. But that means you basically have to recreate Saban's Bama in the NFL and that's impossible... and Bryce couldn't win a championship in that environment either." Two or three? There were 2 pro bowlers on the OL, a TE pro bowler (Olsen) and a running back pro bowler (Stewart) so that's 4 on offense alone - not 2 or 3. On defense you had Short, Davis, Kuechly and Norman all pro bowlers. Thats' 8 starting pro bowlers on the 2015 roster. So yeah, I would say that was a pro bowl roster. So yes, please, let's be accurate.

I simply responded to your post - paragraph by paragraph. The bottom line is, you think Young has had more talent to work with than Newton. I disagree. I posted all the talent each had to work with their rookie years and you still stated Newton had less talent. Again, I disagree. You said his OL in 2015 was trash. I pointed out there were two pro bowlers on it and while Micahael Oher wasn't a pro bowler, he was far from trash so again, disagree. You forgot to mention Olsen played that year, another pro bowler as well, so I reminded you he played as well as Stewart (another pro bowler who according to you only got there because of Newton). The inital post was in response to the statement Young couldn't win a SB even with a roter of Pro Bowlers. I simply pointed out that Newton couldn't either. That doesn't diminish how good Newton was - just pointing out that wasn't a good comparison.

I've always supported him but if he declined an offer from the Panthers, I would be fine with him walking. I trust the FO enough to support their decision on what he's worth. For what it's worth, i would not have said that several years back. Thankfully the Fitterman, Hurney, Gettleman, Rhule and Reich days are behind us.

Pretty sure it will all be answered this year. EIther put up or shut up as they say.

You implied the OL was trash. I simply pointed out there were 2 pro bowlers on it plus they brought in Michael Oher. That line definetly wasn't trash. And I'm sorry you feel the need to belittle Jonathan Stewart to make Newton look better but the fact is he had right at 1100 total yards and 8 TDs. You say the only reason he was selected to the PB was because of Newton. I say he earned it and was a integral part of the Panthers' success that year. And with all those stats they still only went 6-10 and that is with a laundry list of pro bowlers on both sides of the line. But I forgot, you said Newton didn't have as much talent to work with as Bryce has had so I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time here.

I can assure you I am not trying to make anyone like him as I know that's a fools game at this point. I just like the "friendly" banter to be honest lol.

Trai Turner was a 5 time pro bowler - not some "trash OT" guy and Stewart went to the PB that year as well. Anyway, if you really think Newton didn't have any talent to work with after I listed the 10 pro bowlers on the team his rookie years, than I guess there's nothing left for me to say.

Not exactly sure that is an honest assesment of the talent he had to work with that year. Olsen had over 1100 yards that season making the PB, Stewart had close to 1100 total yards also going to the PB. He had Kalil at C who went to the PB, Trai Turner at RG who also went to the PB, and Michael Oher at LT who played well enough that the Panthers offered him a new contract the following year. I wouldn't call that a trash OL. He also played with a defense that was stacked with talent as well. "The thing we are doing better this time around is actually surrounding our #1 overall draft pick QB with talent vs. asking him to completely carry the offense. I just hope that effort is leading us to realize that the guy isn't even good enough to get carried." Please.... Did you not read the list of names Newton had to work with his rookie season. I guess you missed it so I will post it again for you... Steve Smith (PB), Greg Olsen (PB), Brandon LaFell, Ted Ginn JR, Deangelo Williams (PB), Jonathan Stewart (PB), Jordan Grossn (PB), Ryan Kalil (PB) on the offensive side and then he had Luke Kuechly (PB), Jon Beason (PB), Thomas Davis (PB), Star Lotulelei, Kawann Short ( PB ),Charles Johnson, Greg Hardy (PB ), Mike Mitchell, Josh Norman (PB) For comparison, here is who Young had his first year. Chuba Hubbard, DJ Chark, Jonathan Mingo, Adam Thielen, Hayden Hurst, Ikem Ekwonu, Chandler Zavala, Bradley Bozeman, Nash Jensen and Taylor Morton. Not a single PB player on the list and most of them aren't even playing any longer. Additionally, his HC was fired during the season and the defense was as bad as the offense. You might not like the comparison but saying Newton had to completely carry the offense isn't exactly fair to the 4 pro bowlers on offense who played with him that year.

It absolutely is. The guy said Young is so bad he couldn't even win with a pro bowl roster. So if that is his criteria for talent, then by HIS measure, Newton is a bust as well. Now we all know Newton wasn't so by that measure, neither would Young be in that same situation.

I knew you would like them

I've never had a problem with his footwork or mechanics so am not looking for him to fix them. I do agree though that this is the year. Boom or bust!

We had a QB in that exact spot! As a rookie, Cam Newton had Steve Smith (PB), Greg Olsen (PB), Brandon LaFell, Ted Ginn JR, Deangelo Williams (PB), Jonathan Stewart (PB), Jordan Grossn (PB), Ryan Kalil (PB) on the offensive side and then he had Luke Kuechly (PB), Jon Beason (PB), Thomas Davis (PB), Star Lotulelei, Kawann Short ( PB ),Charles Johnson, Greg Hardy (PB ), Mike Mitchell, Josh Norman (PB) and others that I can't remember right now on the defensive side. Even with all those pro bowlers and talent, he only had 3 winning seasons in his career and he never put consecutive winning seasons together. His best year was his 5th year ( 2015 ) when he went to the SB. That was only his second winning season. He would only have one other winning season the rest of his career. And yet Newton is considered a great QB and is revered on this board. If you don't like Young because you don't think he could win even with top tier talent, than what do you say about Newton who did have it and couldn't win.

I can't help but think that you are equating physical attributes alone with wins. I don't subscribe to that thought. No one will argue that Young has a strong arm, but he makes up for it in other ways. The real limitation for him is he needs good route runners with great hands. That's why Young was so good at the end of the 24 season. Thielen and Coker were perfect receivers for him and he had his best games with them. Not having them to start the 25 season hurt. Look at the first 10 games in 25 with a rookie receiver and no Coker and then look at the final 7 games with a more experienced rookie and Coker back and there is a telling difference in Young's performance. Prior to week 10, Young had 1 game with a QB rating above 100, 2 games with a rating above 90 and 6 games with a rating below 90. In the last 7 games with Coker back, Young had 3 games with a QB rating above 100, 2 games with a rating above 90 and only 2 games with a rating below 90. The tools a QB has to work with matter more than their arm strength. To go back to Darnold and Stafford, yes they both have great arm strength but neither had much success with that alone. As I already pointed out, Stafford, even with a canon for an arm, only had 4 winning seasons in his first 12 years. It was only when he went to the right environment that he had true success.

Can't you say that about most QBs? Did Darnold win the SB for the Seahawks or did he capitalize on the talent around him? Hurts is a good QB but they had a crazy good defense and running game the year they won the SB. Stafford only had 4 winning seasons his first twelve years with the Lions but won a SB the first year away with the Rams. All three time, the QBs were surrounded with talent. Yes, they still had to do their part but their success was just as much a product of the talent around them as anythng else.

You bring up a good point on the stability part and i would agree that probably will factor into it. But yes, Tepper does have a strong influence on who stays/goes but I still believe ultimately it'is Morgan, Tilis and Canales who will decide.

I can always count on yout to put things so delicately lol. I'm still not sold on the fact that Tepper will make them keep him if they don't see him as a long term answer.

All that proves is he likes him as a person and has seen some good things out of him. He did not say he is our franchise QB and he did not say he will be making a decision. No doubt he likes him, wants him to work out but even after reading that, I still believe ultimately that decision will lie with Morgan, Tilis and Canales.

I know what you are saying and can see the logic in it. But I really think Morgan and Tilis have a plan and will stick to it. Yes, it is expected that you sign your rookie QB to around $50M if you extend him. But lets say they really like what he did in 26 but are still not sure but he is demanding $50 to sign. While most people would hate the thought of franchising him, it could be an option. Basically you would be getting him for 2 year at an average of $40 a year (($25M + ~$55M) / 2). That extra year gives them a little more time to evaluate him without signing him long term. Having said all of that, I am no expert when it comes to contracts and QB extensions so it may all be a pipe dream on my part lol.

Prove it. Show me one thing Tepper has said over the past year that makes you think he still mkaes the roster decisions. I am fully aware of everyones' opinion here but I'm just not sure he hasn't learned his lesson and has backed off from making those decisions. I know, as the owner, he always has the final say but, again, I just think he's realized he is out of his depth when it comes down to talent evaluation.

Not exactly. The Panthers' aren't locked into paying him $50M. It may be what has been done in the past with QB's coming off their Rookie contracts but it doesn't mean they have to do it. They can offer any kind of contract they want and Young can either accept it or not.

I disagree. I don't think Morgan and Tilis will go that route and while everyone likes to talk of how Tepper will keep him, I doubt it. I think those decisions are Morgan's and Tilis's at this point.