The question of Curtis. Tim Weaver wants to keep him.

[Rags]

6 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

One is a beast in the open field when you manufacture touches for them and is good for a couple deep bombs.

The other was our go to guy on 3rd/4th down and in the redzone while leading the league in separation and catch rate.

We are now manufacturing touches foe D.J. Holy poo.

 

And "go to" in the redzone is hilarious because our redzone offense is terrible.

Why are we having this pissing contest? They're both good WRs. But isn't signing everyone that's remotely good one of the reasons we hated Marty and was in cap hell.

It sucks but unless the FA market blows for him we'll probably see him walk. He's not better than D.J. and he's definitely not better than CMC. Recency Bias got y'all twisted.

[Rags]

1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

OK so there is a better chance to sign Curtis than I thought at the beginning of the offseason.

Here's why:

• Overall Salary cap is most likely not as high as originally anticipated
• The WR FA market looks to be oversaturated with top tier talent this offseason (Godwin, Golladay, Robinson, Corey Davis, Marvin Jones, Hilton, Juju, Antonio Brown, AND Curtis)
• The combination of the above two reasons COULD lead to Curtis taking a shorter 1-year deal that would allow him to cash in on FA the next offseason when the Salary Cap goes back up. 

I'm still only like 15/85% sure yes/no that it happens, but it's better than the 5% I originally thought. 

I agree with most of this. I doubt Godwin is going anywhere though so that makes Curt the best speed guy in the FA. Depends on what the market is for that.

[Stumpy]

5 minutes ago, Rags said:

We are now manufacturing touches foe D.J. Holy poo.

 

And "go to" in the redzone is hilarious because our redzone offense is terrible.

Why are we having this pissing contest? They're both good WRs. But isn't signing everyone that's remotely good one of the reasons we hated Marty and was in cap hell.

It sucks but unless the FA market blows for him we'll probably see him walk. He's not better than D.J. and he's definitely not better than CMC. Recency Bias got y'all twisted.

Teams manufacture touches for every starting receiver.

Is DJ the more naturally gifted WR? Absolutely!

Is he the better receiver? Probably.

At this point in his career, Moore is what homers were optimistic that Samuel could become when we drafted him. Great in the open field and can get you a lot of yards if he gets a lot of touches. But, not really the guy you go to for the clutch catch when you need it. 

I'm not even saying DJ isn't as good as advertised.

Just that Samuel has been so much better of a receiver than anyone expected, that I think people can't get him out of that "gadget player" role that everyone expected of him. 

I don't think people realize just how good our recieving corps was last year.

[micnificent28]

Im a big Samuel fan i even posted a threat earlier in the season about are we sure Moore is better than Samuel that got pooed into the dirt but hey... i dont think its clear cut and dry anymore.

[JawnyBlaze]

If we had a QB that didn’t forget DJ exists half the time, there would be no discussion about Samuel being better. I love Curtis and hope we can keep him for around $10mil or less, but DJ is better all around. I’m super glad we have Anderson but if we have to pick two of our top three, he’s the odd man out. 

[Khyber53]

Let's at least wait and see what that price tag is going to be. I'd like for Samuel to stay with the team, but if he is looking at a WR1 spot and the pay that comes with it, we're going to be hard pressed to find that just laying around.

And are Samuel and Moton our only two big keeps we need to work out this year? If so, then we should be able to. New Orleans keeps all their guys rolling in big money somehow...

[BrianS]

The problem with Curtis is you now have a conundrum.  Was 2020 an outlier?  His catch rate prior to last year was around 55%, but in 2020 it was 79%.  That's a HUGE change, and you have to figure out whether that's sustainable or not.

Had he continued his career catch rate last year, he would have caught 53 balls for 592 yards and no one would be talking about testing free agency.  He'd be an easy retention, but would we even want him?

Curtis knew it was a contract year.  Did he play out of his skin specifically because of that?  Will he drop back off to his career rates next year?

You have to look at the body of work in my mind.  You can't base a contract off of one year.  This is what we all crucified Marty for.  It's a tough call, but I think you let Samuel walk unless he demonstrates that he REALLY wants to be here.

[LinvilleGorge]

7 hours ago, mickeye76 said:

Five reasons we should not resign Curtis Samuel. 

1. D'Wayne Eskridge - had a great senior bowl.  Size a bit of an issue but kid is lightning in a bottle.

2. Dyami Brown - electric and shifty receiver had solid production at UNC with gadgetry plays 

3. Jaelon Darden - fast and speedy WR with big play potential. 

4. Anthony Schwartz - track star with decent hands.  

5. Ihmir smith-Marsette -  Playmaker with speed and more size than some on the list. 

Do ya see a pattern?  There are fast and shifty prospects in this draft to develop as a third option later round picks.  If you add big possession types like Amon St Ra,  Tamorrion Terry, Sage Surratt and Seth Williams and the big ticket prizes like Terrance Marshall, Rondale Moore or Rashod Bateman then there are likely a baker's dozen reasons not to overspend on Samuel.

Dazz Newsome would be the UNC Samuel replacement. Dyami Brown is more of a Ted Ginn Jr. type.

[top dawg]

8 hours ago, mickeye76 said:

Five reasons we should not resign Curtis Samuel. 

1. D'Wayne Eskridge - had a great senior bowl.  Size a bit of an issue but kid is lightning in a bottle.

2. Dyami Brown - electric and shifty receiver had solid production at UNC with gadgetry plays 

3. Jaelon Darden - fast and speedy WR with big play potential. 

4. Anthony Schwartz - track star with decent hands.  

5. Ihmir smith-Marsette -  Playmaker with speed and more size than some on the list. 

Do ya see a pattern?  There are fast and shifty prospects in this draft to develop as a third option later round picks.  If you add big possession types like Amon St Ra,  Tamorrion Terry, Sage Surratt and Seth Williams and the big ticket prizes like Terrance Marshall, Rondale Moore or Rashod Bateman then there are likely a baker's dozen reasons not to overspend on Samuel.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but Samuel can legitimately play RB. That was his natural position coming out of college. Can you say the same for these guys?

Samuel is a nice route runner as well.

Edited February 18, 2021 by top dawg

[kungfoodude]

11 hours ago, PantherKyle said:

No thanks. Not worth the contract for a #3. Also liking him more than DJ is ludicrous. 

I'd love to keep him around but let's also remember that he finally "broke through" in his contract year. It's always wise to be a little wary of those guys. 

And, yes, I fully acknowledge there may be more reasons for it than that. However, a highly skilled utility player like Samuel is a lot easier to find than a WR of DJ Moore's caliber.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

The problem with Curtis is you now have a conundrum.  Was 2020 an outlier?  His catch rate prior to last year was around 55%, but in 2020 it was 79%.  That's a HUGE change, and you have to figure out whether that's sustainable or not.

Had he continued his career catch rate last year, he would have caught 53 balls for 592 yards and no one would be talking about testing free agency.  He'd be an easy retention, but would we even want him?

Curtis knew it was a contract year.  Did he play out of his skin specifically because of that?  Will he drop back off to his career rates next year?

You have to look at the body of work in my mind.  You can't base a contract off of one year.  This is what we all crucified Marty for.  It's a tough call, but I think you let Samuel walk unless he demonstrates that he REALLY wants to be here.

Yeah and if he doesn't want gain a lot of traction in free agency, I'd surely take him back on a 1 year, $6-8 mil deal, provided we have the cap space to make that work. 

[top dawg]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I'd love to keep him around but let's also remember that he finally "broke through" in his contract year. It's always wise to be a little wary of those guys. 

And, yes, I fully acknowledge there may be more reasons for it than that. However, a highly skilled utility player like Samuel is a lot easier to find than a WR of DJ Moore's caliber.

In my opinion, you're underselling Samuel and overselling Moore.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

In my opinion, you're underselling Samuel and overselling Moore.

You are entitled to that opinion, I just don't agree. Look at our franchise draft history alone. We have only ever drafted 2-3 upper tier WR's in team history, not including DJ Moore.

Moore has the capability of being one of the elite WR's in the NFL. Samuel is a great utility player but I don't envision him ever being a #1 WR, nor do I envision him ever leading his team in receptions or receiving yards. He's not a go to player that can still thrive as the focal point of an offense. 

[shaqattaq]

OK, let me throw in my 2 cents. I like Samuel a lot, but still think Moore is better. If it came down to Samuel versus Anderson, I'd go with Samuel, but Anderson's contract makes that not an option. Hopefully we can figure out a way to hold onto Samuel without sacrificing o line.

How it will likely go down:

https://www.si.com/nfl/panthers/gm-report/re-sign-or-wave-goodbye-wr-curtis-samuel

Edited February 18, 2021 by shaqattaq