Gunslinger or Game Manager

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

A game manager who will sling the ball down field with managed aggression if you allow him to (and many times, even when you don't).

Again, this goes back to people thinking that "game manager" means "doesn't take risks".

That's false.

[mickeye76]

This topic made me think about KC.

  Alex Smith is a consummate game manager.  Move the sticks consistently and take calculated risk shots downfield.  Then Mahommes came to town spurs jangling.  Patrick is a gunslinger.  

In his prime Stafford with Megatron helping him out was a big armed gunslinger.  Goff at his best seems to be a efficient game manager.  It's funny that LA and Detroit essentially swapped styles of QB. 

Me personally after a year of TB and years of Ron/ Shula vanilla old school offense give me that gunslinger.  Burrow and Brady lit the college ranks up not too long ago.  Even with TB's limitations three 1000 yrd receivers was a good sign.  Let Brady and Thule find their guy.  Bridgewater has the intangibles and has NFL talent but he also should be a cautionary tale of over valuing the "game manager".  

[Sgt Schultz]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

A game manager who will sling the ball down field with managed aggression if you allow him to (and many times, even when you don't).

That is about the best description I think there is.

[Sgt Schultz]

Just now, mickeye76 said:

This topic made me think about KC.

  Alex Smith is a consummate game manager.  Move the sticks consistently and take calculated risk shots downfield.  Then Mahommes came to town spurs jangling.  Patrick is a gunslinger.  

In his prime Stafford with Megatron helping him out was a big armed gunslinger.  Goff at his best seems to be a efficient game manager.  It's funny that LA and Detroit essentially swapped styles of QB. 

Me personally after a year of TB and years of Ron/ Shula vanilla old school offense give me that gunslinger.  Burrow and Brady lit the college ranks up not too long ago.  Even with TB's limitations three 1000 yrd receivers was a good sign.  Let Brady and Thule find their guy.  Bridgewater has the intangibles and has NFL talent but he also should be a cautionary tale of over valuing the "game manager".  

The problem is TB (our version) is risk averse.  He is a game manager to an extreme. 

I saw Joe Gibbs in his second stint do that to Jason Campbell.  Nobody will ever know what Campbell might have been, because his first few years Gibbs drilled into him some version of "whatever you do, just don't throw an interception."  The guy never really got over that. 

Not sure how TB got to that point, but  he certainly looks that way.  It is also possible he is not averse to throwing interceptions as much as the clock in his head goes off early.  With our OL, that was a pretty safe bet since we were mediocre at protecting him with a 2.5 second time to throw.

It is not a matter of overvaluing game management in a QB, it is a QB that wanders from game management to risk avoidance, whether it be from interceptions of being hit at the 2.55 second mark.

[musicman]

we had guys open deep because the other team knew Teddy wouldn't go deep. If you have a gunslinger, they will take that away, like TB did again Mahomes in the SB. 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, this goes back to people thinking that "game manager" means "doesn't take risks".

That's false.

Most, if not all, QBs worth a damn are game managers, and every QB takes risks.

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Most, if not all, QBs worth a damn are game managers, and every QB takes risks.

I prefer game managers, but I don't know if I'd go that far.

Favre and Elway both won rings. Bradshaw won four of 'em.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

The problem is TB (our version) is risk averse.  He is a game manager to an extreme. 

I saw Joe Gibbs in his second stint do that to Jason Campbell.  Nobody will ever know what Campbell might have been, because his first few years Gibbs drilled into him some version of "whatever you do, just don't throw an interception."  The guy never really got over that. 

Not sure how TB got to that point, but  he certainly looks that way.  It is also possible he is not averse to throwing interceptions as much as the clock in his head goes off early.  With our OL, that was a pretty safe bet since we were mediocre at protecting him with a 2.5 second time to throw.

It is not a matter of overvaluing game management in a QB, it is a QB that wanders from game management to risk avoidance, whether it be from interceptions of being hit at the 2.55 second mark.

We had a similar thing here. Rip Scherer tried to turn Jake Delhomme into a game manager. That just wasn't gonna happen.

[Mr. Scot]

Indulging my inner nerd for a moment, remember the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk got split into his "good self" and his "bad self", and then his good self struggled to make hard decisions?

Bridgewater's "bad self" probably got coached out of him at some point (assuming it existed).

[Moo Daeng]

Game manager means a player who truly understands the game mentality. They can have varying skill sets and abilities.

[Sgt Schultz]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Indulging my inner nerd for a moment, remember the Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk got split into his "good self" and his "bad self", and then his good self struggled to make hard decisions?

Bridgewater's "bad self" probably got coached out of him at some point (assuming it existed).

It could also be an offshoot of the knee injury.  Brady's knee injury was clearly in his mind (based on his reactions to getting hit) for a long time, and he was playing every week after he recovered to come to terms with it.  Imagine a worse injury and playing a handful of games over a few seasons afterwards.

I really can't say what that would do to a player. 

[mickeye76]

My point about over valuing Teddy was we were hoping for the one the Saints got for a couple games.  Also the familiarity with the system and his potential as a mentor for the eventual successor all looked good on paper.  For whatever reason ( the oline allowing early pressure, the loss of CMC) that plan is scrapped.  So I vote gunslinger. Different route.  The fact we went after Stafford and Watson makes me think I'm not the only one. 

   

[Waldo]

I know what I don't want and that is a game manager with a suspect arm and/or fear to push the ball down the field when it's being given to them or a gunslinger with not enough brains or situational awareness.

 

[top dawg]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I prefer game managers, but I don't know if I go that far.

Favre and Elway both won rings. Bradshaw won four of 'em.

My point really is that the term "game manager" is somewhat nebulous and will vary depending upon who you are talking to. 

In my mind a "gunslinger" is one who has the goods, knows he has the goods, and is not afraid to pull the trigger when the opportunity arises, and does it with success more times than not.  

Edited March 31, 2021 by top dawg