Draft Analysis: "A massive value-destroying error"?

[Toomers]

Just now, Peon Awesome said:

Not quite. What's the going rate for a veteran cb1? Easily $15 million per season these days. Jalen Ramsey is making $20 million per year now. So you can't give credit for Fields being cheaper than Darnold and ignore the potential value of Horn over a veteran replacement. You obviously get more value with qb, but it's more like half what you're quoting. 

At the end of the day, the team didn't feel Fields was likely to be the answer or at the very least, Darnold was more likely to pan out than him. Time will tell if they were right. 

 

That’s the choice part. Never said it was easy. And Horn has never played a down. He could also bust. So it a chance on a QB that has been average on his best days, and a rookie who could be anything. The other is a rookie  who could be anything, and a top available CB who has proven himself. Or a LT. or anything 90M buys.  So how is it half. Actually, I forgot to include Horn’s salary which is very relevant and bigger than Fields. That makes it even worse 

Current tally, next 4 years. 

 Darnold/Horn: about 130

 Fields/???-110M. Reckon that would get an OL or two? 

[top dawg]

Any contrived equation that is comparing Fields to Horn in a bubble and sums the pick up as a failure is flawed because it doesn't take into account Sam Darnold. That's just how I see it.

[top dawg]

Context matters! And it always has. 

[jayboogieman]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

Seeing that with Darnold.

How can you see anything with Darnold on the Panthers when they haven't played yet other than your own narrative? He could become good or he could be bad. We just won't know until they play this fall. It seems there are several of you guys that want Darnold to fail and Fields to be great just so you can pat yourselves on the back and crow about being right.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

This article presumes the Panthers don't already have their franchise QB.  

Also, if Horn enables Carolina's defense to get off the field after third down that will be a massive improvement over 2020.

A Game Changer.

Edited May 13, 2021 by NanuqoftheNorth

[beo]

8 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

This article presumes the Panthers don't already have their franchise QB.  

Also, if Horn enables Carolina's defense to get off the field after third down that will be a massive improvement over 2020.

A Game Changer.

I'd say more if Horn and the other press corners we've brought in can play up and give our defensive line, particularly Burns, time to get home and makes plays on 3rd down (and all the other downs as well) instead of being forced to play soft zone defense that just gets picked apart for the length of the field out of fear of our cornerbacks getting cooked 

Edited May 13, 2021 by beo

[CPsinceDay1]

Let's just be honest, Fields sliding to 8 was very slim before they traded for Darnold. So after trading for Sam, they didn't want to look stupid, drafting Fields as Chris Simms kept pointing out. To me, they were worried about public opinion and value their own. What ever happens... sticking with Darnold over Fields/Mac is going to defined Rhule and Fitterer dynasty.

Tepper wanted Fields, but he let the football gurus take a swing.

I guess he doesn't want to come across as the next Jerry Jones.

 

 

[Basbear]

Q Nelson is 4th worst pick?? I hate OG value, but Nelson the best OG in the league. Hes even worth being 1st overall, awful awful at some of these picks. WHere is Jeff Okudah??? He was drafted 3rd overall and would have been waived if he was a UDFA, Tony Pride played 4x better.  

Take this thinking to the trash can. 

[Mr. Scot]

24 minutes ago, CPsinceDay1 said:

Let's just be honest, Fields sliding to 8 was very slim before they traded for Darnold. So after trading for Sam, they didn't want to look stupid, drafting Fields as Chris Simms kept pointing out. To me, they were worried about public opinion and value their own. What ever happens... sticking with Darnold over Fields/Mac is going to defined Rhule and Fitterer dynasty.

Yeah...this is a really dumb take.

You know what really makes people look bad? Losing.

No coach or GM with even half a brain is going to pass up a player they think can help them win just because it might make a prior decision look bad.

Basically, you're spinning it this way because you absolutely can't believe that a group of professional football evaluators could ever possibly disagree with you.

Reality? Yes they can, and they did.

If we still had Marty in charge, you might have an argument. Marty was well known to have done stuff to cover his own ass.

With Fitterer and Rhule? No. They proved otherwise by parting ways with Bridgewater.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

27 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

How can you see anything with Darnold on the Panthers when they haven't played yet other than your own narrative? He could become good or he could be bad. We just won't know until they play this fall. It seems there are several of you guys that want Darnold to fail and Fields to be great just so you can pat yourselves on the back and crow about being right.

Darnold is an actual NFL QB who has started in this league for 3 years.  And the comparison was to the talk we saw with Teddy when we brought him in and the talk we are now seeing as we bring Sam in.  

I mean we know a good bit about Darnold.  Just like we did with Teddy.  

my issue is equating Darnold to a 2021 top 10 draft pick.  He isn’t that.  

no one knows what will happen.  But we need a QB....and we aren’t picking the best lotto tickets IMO.  

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah...this is a really dumb take.

You know what really makes people look bad? Losing.

No coach or GM with even half a brain is going to pass up a player they think can help them win just because it might make a prior decision look bad.

Basically, you're spinning it this way because you absolutely can't believe that a group of professional football evaluators could ever possibly disagree with you.

Reality? Yes they can, and they did.

If we still had Marty in charge, you might have an argument. Marty was well known to have done stuff to cover his own ass.

With Fitterer and Rhule? No. They proved otherwise by patting ways with Bridgewater.

I don’t think his take is dumb....it’s just not your take.

I think the management overall of the QB situation in a small window likely factored in too

-they looked bad in how the Cam era ended here 

-they brought in and overpaid Teddy and that blew up in their face

-they looked bad throwing Teddy under the bus as they failed in pursuing Stafford/Watson (we are fortunate in hindsight there)

- they worked themselves into a position Teddy had to go and a scenario existed where a QB might not even be available in the draft at #8.  So they had to acquire someone before the draft to prevent a going backwards scenario (which would have been not having a QB fall to 8 and ending up with just Grier and Walker) 

- Teddy fiasco went so bad they are having to pay him to be the starting QB in Denver 

Then a QB fell.  Adding Fields then IMO, to some, also plays into the narrative and spotlights even more so the fact that they have handled that spot extremely poorly in a short window of time here.  

We have seen some bad front offices here.  All over the league too.  They might be one too.  I think you are too quick to paint everything they do as 4 D chess and right.  QB looks pretty messy to me.  To others.   It isn’t outlandish for them to be self aware of how that looks in a small window and it to impact them.   

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, CRA said:

I don’t think his take is dumb....it’s just not your take.

I think the management overall of the QB situation in a small window likely factored in too

-they looked bad in how the Cam era ended here 

-they brought in and overpaid Teddy and that blew up in their face

-they looked bad throwing Teddy under the bus as they failed in pursuing Stafford/Watson (we are fortunate in hindsight there)

- they worked themselves into a position Teddy had to go and a scenario existed where a QB might not even be available in the draft at #8.  So they had to acquire someone before the draft to prevent a going backwards scenario (which would have been not having a QB fall to 8 and ending up with just Grier and Walker) 

- Teddy fiasco went so bad they are having to pay him to be the starting QB in Denver 

Then a QB fell.  Adding Fields then IMO, to some, also plays into the narrative and spotlights even more so the fact that they have handled that spot extremely poorly in a short window of time here.  

We have seen some bad front offices here.  All over the league too.  I think you are too quick to paint everything they do as 4 D chess and right.  QB looks pretty messy to me.  To others.   It isn’t outlandish for them to self aware of how that looks and it to impact them. 

Nope, sorry. It's silly.

The notion that they're going to make a football decision for PR reasons is just dumb.

[CRA]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nope, sorry. It's silly.

The notion that they're going to make a football decision for PR reasons is just dumb.

You aren’t new to the NFL.   Front offices do a lot of dumb things.  

and I wouldn’t call it Panther PR.  I would call it personal ego and looking out for themselves.  Self awareness of how they are looking in a short window in respect to the QB spot.   

Darnold also is a relativity safe move at this point.  We most likely will win more games this year than this past year.  So it works for the short term.  Rhule wins more in year 2.   

 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

You aren’t new to the NFL.   Front offices do a lot of dumb things.  

and I wouldn’t call it Panther PR.  I would call it personal ego and looking out for themselves.  Self awareness of how they are looking in a short window in respect to the QB spot.   

Darnold also is a relativity safe move at this point.  We most likely will win more games this year than this past year.  So it works for the short term.

You seriously think they had a conversation where they said "Well, Fields might be the better quarterback but we can't take him because we might look bad and it's better to risk losing than looking bad."

Yeah, sure.

Lemme guess. Is David Tepper sitting next to you in the room again?