Analyzing the 10 OL who should make the roster

[thennek]

This is the first year in a very long time when the Panthers have actual legitimate competition for the o-line. It is about time. Seems like Rhule is serious about fixing a long overdue problem. 

 

 

[BlitzMonster]

I love that the Panthers management now seems to be making proactive moves. 

As MHS points out the OL draft picks and FA signings all seem to have been designed to eventually replace Miller & Paradis as their contracts run out (if not even earlier).  

 

[07579394]

I don't think they will take 10 OLs,8 or 9,then could take more skill spots

[Icege]

Projected starters: Moton (RT), Paradis (C), Miller (RG), Elflein (LG)

Christensen, Erving, Scott are all not only competing for LT but have enough position flexibility to make the roster. Inject more youth with Deonte Brown + David Moore while keeping Dennis Daley over Greg Little due to aforementioned position flexibility.

I'm not so much excited for this year's OL as much as I am the following season's. I'm excited to see Christensen, Moore, Elflein, Brown, Moton if things pan out

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, OldhamA said:

 

If I'm Rhule I'm giving Christensen every chance to fail at LT in TC / the preseason. 

I probably did not stress this point enough.  We run that wide zone blocking scheme and he might be a perfect fit for that--I just need to learn more about it---I think he would be a great G, but a good LT is greater than a great G, especially when you have a veteran or 2 at LG ready to play.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, 07579394 said:

I don't think they will take 10 OLs,8 or 9,then could take more skill spots

It is possible that they go with 9 on the roster because they like versatility.  I really like David Moore and think he was a steal as an UDFA--so I forced him on the roster.  Did not think he'd last on the PS.

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, stirs said:

I feel like David Moore has a better chance of making the roster than Deonte Brown

he is a better fit--so I could see it. 

[MHS831]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Great post!  Thank you for sticking your neck like this to post something worth reading for a change.   Good onya mate! If we ever cross paths I'll buy you a beer.

Gonna hold you to that.  TY

When I saw who replied, I knew this would be a good thread--some very good counterpoints being made.

Edited May 21, 2021 by MHS831

[bythenbrs]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Gonna hold you to that.  TY

When I saw who replied, I knew this would be a good thread--some very good counterpoints being made.

A smartly written post and no mention of ‘he who shall not be named’ by anyone who responded.  Reading through to the end was actually rather pleasant.  

[onmyown]

A good post, unfortunately our oline isn’t much to post about.

Paradis admitted late last year his injury is still hindering him. Big mean don’t heal - especially at his age. 

Fact is the line is looking pretty bad. Panthers have neglected it for so long. Well maybe not neglect, but have made horrible moves there. That’s probably worse. As important as the line is, I see it still a couple years away from being playoff caliber. 

Given the top teams to make the playoffs every year also so happen to have the top olines...it’s not looking good.

My main issue with the line last year was consistency. Easily the worst 3/4 quarter oline in the NFL. Except the Jets. The oline can be average but will have to be average for an entire game.

Edited May 21, 2021 by onmyown

[pantherclaw]

6 hours ago, MHS831 said:

After the draft, I think it was Verge who asked the best question that remained:  "So what do we have as an offensive line? (paraphrased)."  I think it is a great question. 

We still do not have answers for everyone left of right tackle, but we do have depth and competition.  Essentially, we are average across the front after Moton, but that is based on where we were and probably are--but it does not mean that is what we will be.

So I do this for myself and not for the Huddle, but I do not mind sharing.  Agree or disagree--there are  many ways this could go and I am pretty sure it won't go as predicted here.  I tried to analyze each player as objectively and as positively as possible.  These are the 10 OL I think could make the final roster:

• Cam Erving:  Has some LT experience, experience at G as well.  Just does not come off as a LT1.  At his salary, he is a steal if he starts and is average, but I really was hoping that he would be solid depth.  Erving is smart, gives a lot of effort, but due to inexperience at any position, he is a bit behind.  Built to be the utility infielder, it is best for the Panthers if that is the role he plays here.  At his age, he is in his prime, so you are seeing his peak performance; he is what he is.  I would say that he will give 100% and he will learn quickly. Is 100% enough?  Not over the long haul.  Still the favorite to be starting week 1, in my opinion. Erving has said he is most comfortable at LT, and this may be his best chance to win a job there. 

   

• Trent Scott: Scott was probably slightly below average last season, taking about a third of the LT snaps. That is admirable for a backup, and we know he should improve in 2021 because he was new to the system in 2020.  So I might go as far to say that he could reach average.  If Erving is average and Scott can be average, I feel better about LT than I did before the draft.  Having 2 LTs that are slightly below average to average is something you can live with IF you upgraded in other places.  Do not underestimate the value of Tremble here—and maybe a newer, better LG beside him will help.  I would give Scott a C- based on last year, with the upside of a C for 2021. 

   

• Bradley Christensen:  Since nobody asked me, I have been watching Christensen’s videos and reading a few reviews from respected analysts and have come to this conclusion: He can play LT with a few weak spots or he could be a star Left Guard.  BC can handle the speed rushers and the benders; he can pull and reach the second level with ease.  He is great on screens.  Where he could run into trouble:  Bull Rushers.  He will struggle to keep the bigger, power rushers from plowing through his numbers.  He has short arms and a tiny anchor.  So if we can use Tremble to chip and offset that Bull rusher on longer plays from the pocket, he could be a serviceable LT.  But these flaws are minimized if he moves to G, and his athleticism is put more on display.  I think Rhule wants him to play G, honestly, because he sees it too.  Rookie, so grade is based on week 1 potential---LT: C-, LG: B-

   

• Dennis Daley:  The forgotten man except in the “ice up” room, sometimes injuries happen in flurries.  You get one, it alters your technique and you get another.  A pulled groin can lead to a strained knee and that can lead to a hip pointer, for example.  Then everyone calls you “injury prone,” the NFL’s kiss of death. But Daley was drafted in 2019 with Greg Little, and as a sixth rounder, had some impressive outings.  Like in college, he was a bit inconsistent at LT, and was learning LG to start there in 2020 when the injury bug hit.  So we really do not know what we have in Daley; he could be our best LT, and he could be a versatile reserve as opposed to the injured reserve.  No grade, but we really (if you do not include Little) have 4 possible LTs on the roster, and all seem to be about on the same level at this time.  Daley is a LT, LG, and possibly the RT backup.

   

• Pat Elflien:  I have watched Jets tape of Elf at G, and I have watched Vikings tape of Elf at C, where he won the Remington award as college football’s top C after being moved from G to C for his senior year at Ohio State.  Probably a better pass blocker than run blocker, and I like him at C more than G, which is good news, considering Paradis’ age. He does not blow anyone off the ball in the run game, but he usually makes his block.  He is very quick, and the more we pull him, the better off we will be.  He has never played on a good OL, so we shall see how effective he can be.  I see Elflien as the starting LG who will convert to C when Christensen becomes the LG or Paradis is benched. However, he may have a good relationship with Darnold, and the C/QB relationship is important.  (Yes, I think Brady C’s destiny is LG—and I hope LT works out). Based on what I have seen on film, and this does not jive with PFF, I give him a C+ at LG with an upside of a B- if he plays C.

   

• Matt Paradis: Better in 2020 than in 2019 (recovering from a broken fibula), Paradis restructured his contract so he is going to be here at least one more year (2021) and should be the starting Center week 1. He was probably the OL’s second best performer in 2021 for those who played full schedules, but Miller could argue that he was the second best and win half the votes.  Paradis brings experience, and as his leg got stronger, so did he.  At 33, this is his last year, and his leadership and experience at C are probably needed.  He is more of a finesse, zone blocker and can get bull rushed into the QB. I would give him a C with a potential upside of B-.

   

• John Miller:  Miller surprisingly exceeded expectations last year, but probably graded out at the bottom of the average range for RG.  He committed 6 penalties in 14 games (too high) and allowed too many sacks and hits on the qb—but was solid in the run game. He should improve in his second year with OL coach Pat Meyer, but there is a sixth round rookie at RG now who also wants to eat.   The competition will be fierce, and Miller is on a 1-year contract, so he knows they might be grooming D. Brown to take over.  Miller will start there week 1, and he will fight to keep his job or build his resume.  I give Miller a C- with the chance for a C+ with the extra motivation.

   

• Deonte Brown: Is interesting  because he is an enigma.  He is built like a road-grading people mover, but he played LG at Bama and he played like a LG, and that position is probably more aligned with his college tape.  He is a smart blocker, almost a zone blocker at times, and rarely uses his 345 lbs to pave a path over the defender.  I think that will change when and if he is moved to RG, but the upside is this—in pass protection, he does not get bull rushed and he is able to adjust and pick up stunts and blitzes better than most men his size. He is not there yet, but I think coach Meyer can make this guy into a star.  I would have given him (at 347 lbs) a late third round grade, fwiw.  I think at 335 and with some technique development, he will be our starting RG soon. 

   

• David Moore:  Normally I would not include an UDFA before the first practice in July, but since we are high on Moore, I think I will.  Moore is a bit short, but he is hard to move. Rhule played him some at center at Senior Bowl practices, and frankly, the drills in this video are impressive.  He is raw, but I think he could make the roster; I think if you put him on the PS, someone would pick him up.  For now, he is a third C, a third LG, and a third RG, but that is subject to change.  Here is a brief clip of Moore at the SR bowl—note the fact that he is not intimidated and how he stalemates the rush.  He gets beat on one rush, but recovers fairly well to minimize possible damage.  https://youtu.be/kh6ewsdqQMk

   

So if you ask me, I would predict that the Week 1 lineup looks like this:

 

LEFT TACKLE (C)	LEFT GUARD (C+)	CENTER  (C-)	RIGHT GUARD (C)	RIGHT TACKLE  (A)
Cam Erving	Pat Elflien	Matt Paradis	John Miller	Taylor Moton
Trent Scott	Dennis Daley	(Elflien)	Deonte Brown	(Scott)
Brad Christensen	(Christensen)	David Moore

But at some point during the season, I expect the OL to transform—it could look like this by then end:

 

LEFT TACKLE (C)	LEFT GUARD (B-)	CENTER (B-)	RIGHT GUARD (B-)	RIGHT TACKLE (A)
Cam Erving	Brad Christensen	Pat Elflien	Deonte Brown	Taylor Moton
Trent Scott	Dennis Daley	Matt Paradis	John Miller	(Scott)
(Daley)	(Moore)	David Moore	(Moore)	(Daley)

Green--rookies

Red--probably not going to be here next year

I'll admit to being a little hesitant to reading this at first (lams)...

This has been the best OP I've read in awhile. From anyone. I know, that time of year.  While your analysis I can't really disagree with, you presented your entire thought process well. From the fact that it just your own thoughts and just sharing.  Kudos man. 

I have been going back and forth over how I think, I think it may turn out.

I truly belive that if the line is stronger across the inside, it allows the tackles be able to focus on their assignments better. 

That leads me to think that Christiansen should be our start let at LG to start the season. 

that doesn't mean he might not steal LT, just not sure that ends up leading to our best starting 5....

leaving the vet to start at LT like you are currently leaning to.

 

5 hours ago, saX man said:

Thanks for your continued posting volumes.  Helps keep good content while we're entering the deadzone.

I also like Trent Scott v. Erving battle if Christensen is at LG.  We traded up for Christensen and intended to pick him in R2 (per rumors) so I'd like to think he just starts at LG at a minimum.

LT wise: 

Scott last year: 347 snaps, 3 penalties, 2 sacks allowed

Erving: 279 snaps, 1 penalty, 1 sack allowed

If you look at Erving's old draft profiles, it's interesting.  A super athletic center/left tackle with high intelligence.  Almost all applaud his athleticism and proactiveness in the run game.  The negatives were his technique.

Erving's size: 6'5 315, 34.5" arms, 10"+ hands, 84"+ wingspan.

Scott's size: 6'5 320, 34 3/8" arms (can't find winsgspan but he should be right around 84" as well)

Both are better run blockers, both are very athletic for their size.  Erving seems to have allowed some more pressures but doesn't make as many mental errors.  Erving has also evolved to being a full time LT since he was in KC.

My guess:

Erving-Christensen-Paradis-Miller-Moton

 

This day 1 starting lineup I'd be okay with, but man oh man, the competition at that RG position is going to be unreal. 

 

Great thread guys. 

[weyco2000]

6 hours ago, OldhamA said:

He more than held his own against two first round DEs picked this year.

If I'm Rhule I'm giving Christensen every chance to fail at LT in TC / the preseason. 

Yeah, I watched some clips of him and the first thing that jumps out is his pass blocking technique. He pretty much takes the DE out of the play, however he needs a little work finding holes on run plays. But, a LT that can give Darnold confidence that he won’t be killed... priceless!!

[kungfoodude]

You are out of your mind if you think any of those guys are going to beat out Paradis without injuries being involved.

[Scott12345]

I think coach and fitt are counting on elf and Erving to be major impact players...don’t forget they were signed first hours of FA

scott is still an unknown, can he get better?

Daley is a sleeper , if he can stay on the field, he is pretty good

Will Brady make a contribution?...if he pans out that would be a huge plus...same with the bama kid

little still on rookie deal...may be the only reason he makes the team

Edited May 21, 2021 by Scott12345