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Shi and the senior bowl.


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3 hours ago, HardcoreHokie said:

“Quick, name me a Super Bowl winner that when you think of them, your first thought is, they won primarily because they have great receivers. I'll wait). “

Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown, Rob Gronkowski.  2021.

Tom brady threw for 200 yards in the SB.  The defense and run game won that game.

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2 hours ago, HardcoreHokie said:

“Quick, name me a Super Bowl winner that when you think of them, your first thought is, they won primarily because they have great receivers. I'll wait). “

Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown, Rob Gronkowski.  2021.

Is that really what most people think of TB, or is it the fact Godwin and Evans had been on that team for years while it went nowhere, Brown had one good wild card game and then was a non factor the rest of the playoffs, but the difference was QB play and a D that shut down the KC offense?

You named 4 receivers, Brown's contributions as significant are laughable past that first playoff game (a game TB won by 17 points btw, so it's not like his contributions there were the crucial difference), so we're really talking about 3 guys and you threw a name in there off of past glory. 2 of those 3 guys were on that team when it couldn't sniff the playoffs, way way back in, oh yeah, season before last and everything before. It's not the receivers that were the difference, but QB play and D. Thanks for making my point for me.

TB with Evans and Godwin but average D and bad QB-going nowhere

TB with Evans and Godwin, good QB play and top flight D-SB win.

They aren't the difference makers, they are good but they were along for the ride. WR just isn't a position that moves the needle on winning in the NFL that much because while TB has Evans and Godwin, and they are quite talented, most teams have a pair of quality WR's as well.

The way you win in a hypercompetitive league is to have talent at the positions that matter most and where talent is relatively scarce, not by focusing on positions where there is plenty of talent to go around to 32 teams and it's hard to show a consistent correlation between superior talent at the position and winning. 

Just ask Megatron how many playoff games he won.

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13 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Tom brady threw for 200 yards in the SB.  The defense and run game won that game.

I really don't see how anyone looks at that SB and how TB shut down a KC offense that had absolutely tore the league up for the past few years and says anything else was the decisive factor.  KC not breaking double digits was the game, period. You don't win a SB in the modern era with 9 points, ever. Looking at it any other way is absurd or not well informed about football.

If you want to specifically focus on how the TB offense was better than in the past, you could point out that while Brady only threw for 200 yards, he did throw for 3 TD's and no INT's.

*looks pointedly at Jameis Winston*

Edited by 1of10Charnatives
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3 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Two 2nd round OT's?   

Look I agree it is hard to find excellent OT which is why it is one of the higher paying positions.  

It sounds like you have real problem with the Marshal pick since he was the pick before BC and is a WR.    I can see that. 

Marshal was pick 59.  BC was pick 70.  Between 59 and 70, one OT was taken.  Jalen Mayfield had only 15 starts at MI and missed most of 2020 season due to injury.

Is Mayfield a better OT than BC?  We'll see, he went to Atlanta.  I think he was one of our potential OL targets and I think we panicked when Atlanta took him, that's why we traded up.  We'll see if either of them get PT at LOT and how each one performs.    You may be right, we should have taken Mayfield at 59.  

 

I would absolutely not hesitate to pull the trigger on 2 second round OT's. I have nothing against Marshall personally, and now that he's ours I hope he tears it up and I'll root for him every Sunday. I just dislike picking that position in that situation, regardless of whether it was Marshall or anyone else. Typically it's pretty easy to make use of a guy who can play tackle by moving him inside. It's much harder to move a guy outside or live with poor tackle play while your talented WR corps can't go deep because the rush keeps getting to their QB.

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3 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Who caught those balls...Tom Brady?

misses the point. In every SB some talented WR's catch passes from a much harder to come by talented QB. That QB is usually upright because an also much harder to come by pair of quality tackles keeps giving him a clean pocket to throw to.

The point is not about whether TB's WR's are good, they are. The point is about the scarcity of talent and where it makes a difference.

Too many fans focus too much on skill position players because of fantasy football, highlight plays, and stats that make it much easier to quantify what they do. Quality LT's don't put up stats, they don't create Sportscenter moments, they just get you closer to winning championships than quality WR's do, because almost everybody has quality WR's.

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4 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Too many fans focus too much on skill position players because of fantasy football, highlight plays, and stats that make it much easier to quantify what they do. Quality LT's don't put up stats, they don't create Sportscenter moments, they just get you closer to winning championships than quality WR's do, because almost everybody has quality WR's.

tenor.gif?itemid=20850886

Still with the OL>WR stuff.    We all know the OL is important which is why we traded up to get BC.

I know you are really really really upset about Marshal...and apparently really really really wanted Mayfield which is the OT we missed to get him.

We get it.

 

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36 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I would absolutely not hesitate to pull the trigger on 2 second round OT's. I have nothing against Marshall personally, and now that he's ours I hope he tears it up and I'll root for him every Sunday. I just dislike picking that position in that situation, regardless of whether it was Marshall or anyone else. Typically it's pretty easy to make use of a guy who can play tackle by moving him inside. It's much harder to move a guy outside or live with poor tackle play while your talented WR corps can't go deep because the rush keeps getting to their QB.

The problem isn't that we didn't draft 2nd round OT.  The problem is that our 2nd round tackle doesn't appear to like to play football.  Little was going to be our next Gross.

2019 NFL Draft: Film room scouting report on Ole Miss OT Greg Little - Cat Scratch Reader

smh

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24 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They won that game because KC ran out of healthy OL. It's really that simple.

i'll buy that. i'll buy about anything other than TB was just better in all facets or aliens/conspiracy theory revealed through numerology.

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15 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

The problem isn't that we didn't draft 2nd round OT.  The problem is that our 2nd round tackle doesn't appear to like to play football.  Little was going to be our next Gross.

2019 NFL Draft: Film room scouting report on Ole Miss OT Greg Little - Cat Scratch Reader

smh

29 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

tenor.gif?itemid=20850886

Still with the OL>WR stuff.    We all know the OL is important which is why we traded up to get BC.

I know you are really really really upset about Marshal...and apparently really really really wanted Mayfield which is the OT we missed to get him.

We get it.

 

No.

 

You really don't.

 

Stop misrepresenting my position.

 

You keep insisting on asserting that my position has something to do with this particular player or that particular player when it doesn't, it's about organizational use of resources. I don't care one way or the other about Mayfield. What I care about was that when the Lions took Sewell, we pretended in the 2nd that OT wasn't still by far our most pressing offensive need. 9 tackles went off the board between Sewell and Christiansen. You're going to tell me that none of them was a better option than a luxury pick at a position group we're not hurting at, or that making additional moves to pick one of them plus someone else wasn't an even better option?

Receivers can be had in FA or via trade with relative ease. Good luck getting a quality tackle that way, or do you wanna take another swing at next year's Matt Kalil? Almost the only way to get your hands on a quality LT without paying through the nose for him is through the draft, so here's a really complicated idea, since LT matters a ton:

Draft more than one every decade.

Go hog wild and draft two in the same draft.

If you whiff, get even crazier and try again next year til you get something.

What you don't do is shrug your shoulders and go, oh well, we didn't get the best prospect, guess since we like a guy who will be available middle of the third we should ignore our massive need til then and just hope that one guy pans out. 

What does every coach always say in NFL? We wanna create competition. Good, draft two guys with solid potential and see which one earns it, instead of taking a shiny toy and crossing your fingers that your one mid round guy works out since you couldn't get the elite prospect.

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1 hour ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

Is that really what most people think of TB, or is it the fact Godwin and Evans had been on that team for years while it went nowhere, Brown had one good wild card game and then was a non factor the rest of the playoffs, but the difference was QB play and a D that shut down the KC offense?

You named 4 receivers, Brown's contributions as significant are laughable past that first playoff game (a game TB won by 17 points btw, so it's not like his contributions there were the crucial difference), so we're really talking about 3 guys and you threw a name in there off of past glory. 2 of those 3 guys were on that team when it couldn't sniff the playoffs, way way back in, oh yeah, season before last and everything before. It's not the receivers that were the difference, but QB play and D. Thanks for making my point for me.

TB with Evans and Godwin but average D and bad QB-going nowhere

TB with Evans and Godwin, good QB play and top flight D-SB win.

They aren't the difference makers, they are good but they were along for the ride. WR just isn't a position that moves the needle on winning in the NFL that much because while TB has Evans and Godwin, and they are quite talented, most teams have a pair of quality WR's as well.

The way you win in a hypercompetitive league is to have talent at the positions that matter most and where talent is relatively scarce, not by focusing on positions where there is plenty of talent to go around to 32 teams and it's hard to show a consistent correlation between superior talent at the position and winning. 

Just ask Megatron how many playoff games he won.

Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Travis Kelce.  2020.

Not arguing against OL importance, just answering the question you asked about SB champs and receivers.

You asked the question, just providing answers.  Literally the last two World Champs have featured *elite* receiving corps. 

 

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