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Darnold's QBR was higher than Tannehill's


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4 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

He is just trying to amp up the enthusiasm level. I say, good on him.

Yeah I was just being facetious and poking fun at the contingent of Huddlers who start clamoring for us to tank around like Week 5 in October. If Darnold had us in position for the 1st overall pick all season and then “blew it” by beating two playoff teams in the last three weeks, the whining wouldn’t stop for at least 5 years. 

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3 hours ago, SBBlue said:

Adam Gase was coach of Miami 2016,2017 & 2018 and the jets 2019 & 2020   

Tannehill QBRs under Gase were: 45.6, 48.6 and 33.2 for an average of  42.5   Ryan Tannehill Stats | ESPN

Darold's QBRs under Gase were:  45.6 and 40.1 for an  average of 42.9 Sam Darnold Stats | ESPN

This surprised me...but under Gase,   Darnold's QBR was higher than Tannehill's.

Tannehill was ranked 32nd by QBR in 2018, his last year under Gase. In 2019 after he left Gase, he was ranked 9th in the regular season, and 4th out 12 in the postseason.    2018 NFL Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

 In 2018, when Tannehill was under Gase, Darnold was under Bowles.   Darnold, as a rookie, was ranked higher than Tannehil that year. 2018 NFL Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

Tannehill's QBR went from 33.2 to 64.2 after he left Gase.  Where will Darnolds 40.1 QBR go to?

Your premise is correct, but a couple notes. Tannehill missed all of 2017. That first QBR number was pre-Gase and actually makes Tannehill’s numbers worse but he did miss an entire year so he was still coming back in 2018. Tannehill also had some decent years pre-Gase so while Gase appeared to ruin him like he ruined Sam, Tannehill did have those 4 non-Gase years to help him transition to Tennessee. I have no idea if Darnold will work out but I am ignoring 2020 when he appeared to be getting the rug pulled out as the Jets went to tank for Trevor. The tougher thing for Darnold is that his only NFL experience is Gase driven so I’m not expecting an immediate awakening. 
 

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2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Yeah I was just being facetious and poking fun at the contingent of Huddlers who start clamoring for us to tank around like Week 5 in October. If Darnold had us in position for the 1st overall pick all season and then “blew it” by beating two playoff teams in the last three weeks, the whining wouldn’t stop for at least 5 years. 

 

lol Gotcha.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, stbugs said:

 That first QBR number was pre-Gase and actually makes Tannehill’s numbers worse

Yup.

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 Gase appeared to ruin him like he ruined Sam, Tannehill did have those 4 non-Gase years to help him transition to Tennessee.

Yes, it would be better not to throw a developing QB in to that sht.  We'll see, but I think Darnold was just working on his scrambling for 3 years.

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I have no idea if Darnold will work out but I am ignoring 2020 when he appeared to be getting the rug pulled out as the Jets went to tank for Trevor. The tougher thing for Darnold is that his only NFL experience is Gase driven so I’m not expecting an immediate awakening. 

Guess we'll see.  Exciting ain't it?

I never thought about the tank-for-Trevor and how it threw gas on the fire.  Great point.

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42 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Exactly what does this entail?  How does he improve it?

How do you learn/improve at anything?  Study, repetition, practice, having a good teacher.....these are not difficult concepts to grasp.

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2 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I agree, and would add two things. 

QBR should reflect decision making to an extent.  If you are seeing the field, following your reads, hitting open receivers, not throwing ints, that is going to be reflected in a higher QBR.  I understand QBR is not a perfect measure.  I would argue Tannehills decision making was on par with  Darnolds.  Tannehill threw 9 ints in 11 games that last year, to Darnolds 11 ints in 12 games. 

Secondly, Scheme affects decision making ability.  If the design sucks, the reads suck, and its 4th down, you try to make something happen.  Also Gase has been accused of discouraging audibles because he doesn't trust his QBs post Manning.

I think we agree fundamentally for the most part. But on the subject of Adam Gase that has taken on a life of it's own to the point it feels like now people are trying too hard to absolve Sam for some pretty awful picks. 39 of them in three seasons. For whatever any of us want to say about scheme or play design the ball was still in Darnold's hands. We paired him with a quarterback coach who has had success with development at this level which is a plus compared to who the previous regime leaned on so there is hope he can bring him along quickly and get him acclimated. Matt Rhule and Joe Brady can coach him up but it will still be up to Sam to take care of the football. It is best to prepare for his inevitable turnovers now because even if he excels he is bound to make some ill advised throws. It will be how he responds after and how he handles pressure in end of game scenarios that will determine his status here in the future.

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1 minute ago, joemac said:

How do you learn/improve at anything?  Study, repetition, practice, having a good teacher.....these are not difficult concepts to grasp.

You learn by winning.

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2 hours ago, SBBlue said:

I agree, and would add two things. 

QBR should reflect decision making to an extent.  If you are seeing the field, following your reads, hitting open receivers, not throwing ints, that is going to be reflected in a higher QBR.  I understand QBR is not a perfect measure.  I would argue Tannehills decision making was on par with  Darnolds.  Tannehill threw 9 ints in 11 games that last year, to Darnolds 11 ints in 12 games. 

Secondly, Scheme affects decision making ability.  If the design sucks, the reads suck, and its 4th down, you try to make something happen.  Also Gase has been accused of discouraging audibles because he doesn't trust his QBs post Manning.

QBR is just a rating based on end statistics. It doesn't take into account any portion of decision making other than simple completion percentage, TD's and INT's. That would be a poor tool to use for decision making. 

If you want some inside looks at decision making in statistical form, I would look at some more advanced situational statistics and metrics. That is more likely to shed some light on the trends.

Ultimately, "decision making" is also part eye test and somewhat interpretive. One evaluator may see a bad decision or bad throw, whereas some might attribute it to poor play calling or some othet external factor.

 

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1 hour ago, CanadianCat said:

Exactly, he should be... 

They did expect him to be there. If you watch the Panthers Confidential Matt Rhule did a mock draft for Tepper and Fitt and mocked him to be available. Him being there was not a surprise. 

I think they just generally liked Horn more as a prospect than Fields.

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Just now, frankw said:

 it feels like now people are trying too hard to absolve Sam for some pretty awful picks. 39 of them in three seasons.

Yup 39 ints in 38 games, 1.02 ints a game...that includes his rookie season. 6 of his 12 games last season had 0 ints.   So its not like he can't do it.  We just need to create an environment and scheme to keep the ship upright.

 

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it will still be up to Sam to take care of the football.

Agreed.

 

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19 minutes ago, joemac said:

How do you learn/improve at anything?  Study, repetition, practice, having a good teacher.....these are not difficult concepts to grasp.

Careful or he's going to tell you come up with a list of QBs that meet some ridiculously narrow set of criterion to prove to him that Sam won't be some big failure, as if his pinheaded opinion and approval means anything at all.

The guy is a troll.... one of a few around here I'm losing my patience with.

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57 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:
1 hour ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Exactly what does this entail?  How does he improve it?

 

(i) Film study, (ii) learn from his mistakes, (which is part of film study) and (iii) positive reps. Throw is (iv) good communication with both his (iv-a) receivers, and his (iv-b) coaches.

 

So that constitutes "the mental aspect of the game"...

...good stuff, been wondering about that.

Was he doing any of that stuff when he was with the Jets or is all of this brand new to him?  

 

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36 minutes ago, frankw said:

I think we agree fundamentally for the most part. But on the subject of Adam Gase that has taken on a life of it's own to the point it feels like now people are trying too hard to absolve Sam for some pretty awful picks. 39 of them in three seasons. For whatever any of us want to say about scheme or play design the ball was still in Darnold's hands. 

Yeah, but the Jets atrocious OL have to be taken into account too. They were worse than the Bell/Chandler Panthers OL of 2014 where Cam scored 18 TDs to 12 picks in a 7-8-1 season.

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