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Panthers Cap Space (This Season) After Moton Deal


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On 7/19/2021 at 11:15 PM, PandaMan said:

Exactly, pass rushers are by far one of the most important positions in the game and we will have to pay Burns in a couple years.  I would also love keeping DJ Moore.  He’s performed so well with trash at QB, this guy can be a league leader in stats with better QB play.  

We’ve been laughably bad at retaining quality homegrown talent, so I’m a believer that the Moton deal was a sign of good things to come.  

 

We have also been laughably bad at saving money. We pain Moton, and still have money. 

 

We used to spend every dime we had. Never had Cap Space. So we had to let some players walk. So far, it looks like this regime has a handle on that. So far at least. Maybe, just maybe, we can start keeping some of our home grown talent. Wouldn't that be nice?

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Can anyone explain why you wouldn’t front load the contract? I mean this year supposed to be a rebuilding year so wouldn’t you want more cap available in years 2-4 of the contract so we can have room to resign/ sign players? Why not put the majority of the contract for this year?

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4 hours ago, rmoneyg35 said:

Can anyone explain why you wouldn’t front load the contract? I mean this year supposed to be a rebuilding year so wouldn’t you want more cap available in years 2-4 of the contract so we can have room to resign/ sign players? Why not put the majority of the contract for this year?

With cap rollover it almost doesn’t matter. We’ve been so close to the cap the last few years that even if we rollover a bunch we are well within the use 89% of cap every 4 years. I’d bet if we look good (mainly Darnold) this year and seem like we could compete for the division/SB in 2022/2023, that’s when we’ll splurge and it’ll be good to have some flexibility. Our young stars still have contract years, 5th years and available franchise tags that we’ll be able to space out their extensions and still have a nice amount of cap leftover to add some pieces for a few runs.

It all comes down to QB and continuing to draft starters. If we can solve those we’ve got some solid young talent that could compete for a title.

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12 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

We certainly do.

Our best path forward:

2021 - Get Sam right, don’t worry about playoffs, just get him to where we need. Figure out which of the rookie OL can contribute and where (ideal case is BC and either Moore or Brown plug 2 IOL spots). Figure out if Marshall, Moore 2 and Smith make Anderson expendable (hopefully, he is). Figure out which short time vets we want to stay longer (Jones, Reddick, Bouye, Perryman, Arnold, OL).

2022 - Release Shaq to save $25M over 2022/2033 and work on extending DJ after 5th year option. Re-sign Donte if he does well (he shouldn’t be expensive based on years 1-3). Draft our LT in round 1 (or QB if Sam flops, which puts a kink in plan) and draft another 1 or 2 OL. Draft a LB as Shaq’s replacement (maybe 3rd, not having 2nd is tough) or FA like Perryman. Fill in depth based on 2021 progression of players.

2023 - Extend Burns who will be on his 5th year option. Maybe extend Chinn/Gross-Matos if not a franchise tag on Chinn. Draft OL heavy yet again and sprinkle in other positions needed.

2024 - Enjoy making a run at a repeat. 

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19 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Our best path forward:

2021 - Get Sam right, don’t worry about playoffs, just get him to where we need. Figure out which of the rookie OL can contribute and where (ideal case is BC and either Moore or Brown plug 2 IOL spots). Figure out if Marshall, Moore 2 and Smith make Anderson expendable (hopefully, he is). Figure out which short time vets we want to stay longer (Jones, Reddick, Bouye, Perryman, Arnold, OL).

2022 - Release Shaq to save $25M over 2022/2033 and work on extending DJ after 5th year option. Re-sign Donte if he does well (he shouldn’t be expensive based on years 1-3). Draft our LT in round 1 (or QB if Sam flops, which puts a kink in plan) and draft another 1 or 2 OL. Draft a LB as Shaq’s replacement (maybe 3rd, not having 2nd is tough) or FA like Perryman. Fill in depth based on 2021 progression of players.

2023 - Extend Burns who will be on his 5th year option. Maybe extend Chinn/Gross-Matos if not a franchise tag on Chinn. Draft OL heavy yet again and sprinkle in other positions needed.

2024 - Enjoy making a run at a repeat. 

I agree with most of these moves from the current vantage point...but I reserve the right to change my mind.

Players we expect to do well may decline and unexpected players may impress.   We don't know where we're drafting at or what will be available.

In 2014 we were 7-8-1.  The NFC south was considered the worst division in football.  Who predicted that we would go to the Superbowl in '15 and 3 NFC Champions would come from the NFCS over the next 6 years.

Rhule and Fitt make decisions I would have never considered and that intrigues me.  Do they see something I don't?    I would have gone Fields and oline like the Bears did. Lets see how the Bears do and how we do.

 

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3 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I agree with most of these moves from the current vantage point...but I reserve the right to change my mind.

Players we expect to do well may decline and unexpected players may impress.   We don't know where we're drafting at or what will be available.

In 2014 we were 7-8-1.  The NFC south was considered the worst division in football.  Who predicted that we would go to the Superbowl in '15 and 3 NFC Champions would come from the NFCS over the next 6 years.

Rhule and Fitt make decisions I would have never considered and that intrigues me.  Do they see something I don't?    I would have gone Fields and oline like the Bears did. Lets see how the Bears do and how we do.

 

Well of course I can’t see the future, but I see a pretty easy path to compete for a while if, and it’s a big if, Darnold becomes a good QB and if we continue to draft well. I know that’s obvious to a point, get a good QB and draft well, but with Moton, CMC, DJ, Marshall, Burns, Chinn, Gross-Matos, Horn, Brown and others like maybe Donte, Reddick and the rookies, we’ve got the makings of a really good core. QB and 2 more really good OL and we are contenders. Darnold is the key and that’s a bit scary.

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1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Our best path forward:

2021 - Get Sam right, don’t worry about playoffs, just get him to where we need. Figure out which of the rookie OL can contribute and where (ideal case is BC and either Moore or Brown plug 2 IOL spots). Figure out if Marshall, Moore 2 and Smith make Anderson expendable (hopefully, he is). Figure out which short time vets we want to stay longer (Jones, Reddick, Bouye, Perryman, Arnold, OL).

2022 - Release Shaq to save $25M over 2022/2033 and work on extending DJ after 5th year option. Re-sign Donte if he does well (he shouldn’t be expensive based on years 1-3). Draft our LT in round 1 (or QB if Sam flops, which puts a kink in plan) and draft another 1 or 2 OL. Draft a LB as Shaq’s replacement (maybe 3rd, not having 2nd is tough) or FA like Perryman. Fill in depth based on 2021 progression of players.

2023 - Extend Burns who will be on his 5th year option. Maybe extend Chinn/Gross-Matos if not a franchise tag on Chinn. Draft OL heavy yet again and sprinkle in other positions needed.

2024 - Enjoy making a run at a repeat. 

Edit: I see it now. Moore is going to get minimum 80 millionish. Pair that with Burns deal that's a heap of salary cap that could make things tough for 2025.

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Just now, stbugs said:

 Darnold is the key and that’s a bit scary.

Or exciting.  

Darnold plays better than Teddy, which even some of his detractors concede, and Teddy was  just below average in many categories. 

As for ints,  Darnold's 3% last year  was bad, but still better than the 3.1% in '16 and 3.3% in '18 that Tannehill had. 

Tannehill's is now at 1.5 int%.   Darnold doesn't have to get close to that for us to be good. 

Teddy had a 2.1 int% last year, a very reasonable target for Darnold this year.

People seem to forget that Darnold had a winning QB record in 2019, with the JETS and Gase.  That year, he had better a QB -record than Prescott, Ryan, Winston, Stafford, Rivers, and our Newton and  Kyle Allen.   Now that's a ridiculous comparison, I know.   But see how much situation matters?  Sam may fail, but I wouldn't say the odds lean overwhelmingly that way.

You don't have to have rose colored glasses to see that Sam could work, there's plenty of data to support it.  He has definite flashes on film.

The Bucs stood still and it looks like aints and birds took a step backward. 

I think we changed radically for the better.

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7 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Darnold plays better than Teddy,

 

I would be hesitant to make that claim just yet. TB wasn't holding the team back bc he was a turnover machine though that was a factor. He could have been a decent starter if he pushed the ball downfield consistently and didn't opt for the easy play far too often. He was risk averse to a fault. With Sam we know he can sling it better than Teddy but it's a matter of coaching those too often risky plays out of him. There was a video in one of these threads going back to his usc days of him just heaving up some pretty dicey passes. That's the x factor we have to wait and see on if he will be able to progress from that.

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3 minutes ago, frankw said:

I would be hesitant to make that claim just yet. TB wasn't holding the team back bc he was a turnover machine though that was a factor. He could have been a decent starter if he pushed the ball downfield consistently and didn't opt for the easy play far too often. He was risk averse to a fault. With Sam we know he can sling it better than Teddy but it's a matter of coaching those too often risky plays out of him. There was a video in one of these threads going back to his usc days of him just heaving up some pretty dicey passes. That's the x factor we have to wait and see on if he will be able to progress from that.


And then there's some detractors who won't even concede Darnold>Teddy.   

No surprise there frankw, no surprise there.

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28 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

Or exciting.  

Darnold plays better than Teddy, which even some of his detractors concede, and Teddy was  just below average in many categories. 

As for ints,  Darnold's 3% last year  was bad, but still better than the 3.1% in '16 and 3.3% in '18 that Tannehill had. 

Tannehill's is now at 1.5 int%.   Darnold doesn't have to get close to that for us to be good. 

Teddy had a 2.1 int% last year, a very reasonable target for Darnold this year.

People seem to forget that Darnold had a winning QB record in 2019, with the JETS and Gase.  That year, he had better a QB -record than Prescott, Ryan, Winston, Stafford, Rivers, and our Newton and  Kyle Allen.   Now that's a ridiculous comparison, I know.   But see how much situation matters?  Sam may fail, but I wouldn't say the odds lean overwhelmingly that way.

You don't have to have rose colored glasses to see that Sam could work, there's plenty of data to support it.  He has definite flashes on film.

The Bucs stood still and it looks like aints and birds took a step backward. 

I think we changed radically for the better.

In '19 Gase took the line calls and alot of adjustments they make off Darnold and gave it to the center in the second half of the season.  One of his coaches said something to this effect in the offseason.  

Everyone said that is why he played so much better in '19, but instead of doing that again in '20 Gase turned around and put it all right back on Darnold.  

As long as you don't treat him like Brady or Manning and expect him to call everything at the line, I think he can at least be a average QB.  Hopefully better.

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