PFF Grades - Panthers defensive line.

[SBBlue]

45 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Pff grades aren't some formula based off of stats.

A D-lineman can be negatively graded on a running play even if the RB didn't have much success.  Maybe that D-lineman got beat but another player made a great play to stop the RB for a small gain.

Fans watch the game, PFF watches the player.  Fans see a running play for a 2 yard gain and automatically think everyone did their job.  Maybe a certain D-lineman got pushed around on that play but it was away from the ball. Fans never see it.

 

PFF says the jets have a top 10 oline.  Zach wilson has been sacked 10 times in 2 games, and we hit him what 11 times in 1 game with 6 sacks?

Sorry,  looking just "at the players", you have to high af to conclude that the jets have one of the best lines in the league.

[erwingloudemans88]

23 hours ago, Eazy-E said:

Shaq Thompson’s week one grade was a 75.7 and he had arguably his best game as a Panther.

Roquan Smith in week 2 had a grade of 90.2 having similar stats to Shaq in week one except he took his int to the house which has more to to with his teammates block than him individually. 
 

Is PFF really going to bump a rating by almost 15 points for a defensive TD?

I really wish we would just ban PFF and their blatant favoritism in their magical ratings. Not having anyone from this defense rate above an 80 so far this season is enough evidence for anyone to realize PFF is a full of poo.

I did heard a podcast of around the nfl. Where they go and explain some of the metrics. But it's not only based on stats. It's for a lb, for example beating your block/being in the correct gap. Including the strength of the offensive line that you were playing. Same goes for offense line. You win all your 1v1 but the dline had a bad rating you will not get a high grade. Not saying it's perfect, but they take more into account then just the stats. I love chinn as a player, but if you look at the all 22 in pass coverage he isn't the greatest, and he is out of position quite a bit. His speed makes him recover quickly. Will only get better though. Young player that will get good, if they play his strengths. 

Just my 2 cents

[AU-panther]

5 hours ago, SBBlue said:

PFF says the jets have a top 10 oline.  Zach wilson has been sacked 10 times in 2 games, and we hit him what 11 times in 1 game with 6 sacks?

Sorry,  looking just "at the players", you have to high af to conclude that the jets have one of the best lines in the league.

You are drawing conclusions from incomplete stats

Sacks are often a QB stat, not just an O-line stat.  For example is the QB getting rid of the ball as quick as he should

Passing Stats | NFL Next Gen Stats

Wilson has the 2nd highest TT (time to throw) in the league.  The o-line is getting him time.

What about rushing?

The Jets YPC average is almost 25% higher than ours, 3.3 to 4.1.  We have a $16m RB who most consider one of the best in the league.  That doesn't seem to add up.  Either their O-line is doing better for him than our O-line or CMC is grossly overpaid.

Fan view of an O-line.

RB A on Team A gets 100 yards on 20 carries.  

RB B on Team B gets 90 yards on 20 carries.

Fan logic believes RB A is the better RB and Team A O-line is the better O-line.

Possible PFF view:

RB A on Team A gets 100 yards on 20 carries, of which 20 of the yards are coming after contact.

RB B on Team B gets 90 yards on 20 carries, of which 60 of the yards are coming after contact.

PFF logic, RB B is better.

What about O-line?

RB A on Team A gets 100 yards on 20 carries, but first contact average is 2.2 yards.

RB B on Team B gets 90 yards on 20 carries, but first contact average is 3.0 yards.

Fan thinks Team A has the better O-line but in reality Team B O-line is doing better.

I'm not saying PFF is perfect, but just looking at a few stats out of context can be very misleading.

 

[SBBlue]

20 hours ago, AU-panther said:

You are drawing conclusions from incomplete stats

Sacks are often a QB stat, not just an O-line stat.  For example is the QB getting rid of the ball as quick as he should

Passing Stats | NFL Next Gen Stats

Wilson has the 2nd highest TT (time to throw) in the league.  The o-line is getting him time.

What about rushing?

The Jets YPC average is almost 25% higher than ours, 3.3 to 4.1.  We have a $16m RB who most consider one of the best in the league.  That doesn't seem to add up.  Either their O-line is doing better for him than our O-line or CMC is grossly overpaid.

Fan view of an O-line.

RB A on Team A gets 100 yards on 20 carries.  

RB B on Team B gets 90 yards on 20 carries.

Fan logic believes RB A is the better RB and Team A O-line is the better O-line.

Possible PFF view:

RB A on Team A gets 100 yards on 20 carries, of which 20 of the yards are coming after contact.

RB B on Team B gets 90 yards on 20 carries, of which 60 of the yards are coming after contact.

PFF logic, RB B is better.

What about O-line?

RB A on Team A gets 100 yards on 20 carries, but first contact average is 2.2 yards.

RB B on Team B gets 90 yards on 20 carries, but first contact average is 3.0 yards.

Fan thinks Team A has the better O-line but in reality Team B O-line is doing better.

I'm not saying PFF is perfect, but just looking at a few stats out of context can be very misleading.

 

I am reaching the conclusion that PFF is total ass.  They say the jets have a top 10 OL.  We didn't sack Zach Wilson because he was holding onto the ball too long.  Their yards before contact were ass as well.

YBC is a stat btw.

I don't think anyone could watch the Jets Panthers game and conclude their DL was superior to ours or their OL was superior to ours. 

It doesn't pass the eye, stat or sniff test.  It just doesn't.
 

[AU-panther]

52 minutes ago, SBBlue said:

I am reaching the conclusion that PFF is total ass.  They say the jets have a top 10 OL.  We didn't sack Zach Wilson because he was holding onto the ball too long.  Their yards before contact were ass as well.

YBC is a stat btw.

I don't think anyone could watch the Jets Panthers game and conclude their DL was superior to ours or their OL was superior to ours. 

It doesn't pass the eye, stat or sniff test.  It just doesn't.
 

Where did they have the Jets O-line ranked after the first game?  You keep talking about all the pressure we got in the first game but what was their rank then?  It wasn't 10th.  You are making all the assumptions about a 2 week grade on the basis of what you saw in the first week game.

And you can't ignore the fact he has the second highest time to throw, how many of those sacks are on Wilson?  I know it is hard for people to understand but sacks are also a QB stat.  

How many yards did they have rushing their second game?  What was their YPC second game?  Of that #10 rating what was the breakdown of their run block and pass block?  They actually had a really good rushing game the second game, I'm sure that is heavily influencing their overall grade.

How about their tight ends?  That stat you linked is the cumulative grade of their 5 OL.  How often are they in 22 personel?  (which is two tight ends)  What was the pass block grades of their TEs?  Run block of their TEs?

 

Their TEs were last in pass block grade in the league.  Which is scary because they use 2 TEs second most in the league.

I'm not saying PFF is perfect, far from it.  Also I'm not saying the Jets are exactly the 10th best OL after two weeks, but I think you are coming to a very strong conclusion based off of some limited data points.

 

 

 

 

[SBBlue]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

Where did they have the Jets O-line ranked after the first game?  You keep talking about all the pressure we got in the first game but what was their rank then?  It wasn't 10th.  You are making all the assumptions about a 2 week grade on the basis of what you saw in the first week game.

And you can't ignore the fact he has the second highest time to throw, how many of those sacks are on Wilson?  I know it is hard for people to understand but sacks are also a QB stat.  

How many yards did they have rushing their second game?  What was their YPC second game?  Of that #10 rating what was the breakdown of their run block and pass block?  They actually had a really good rushing game the second game, I'm sure that is heavily influencing their overall grade.

How about their tight ends?  That stat you linked is the cumulative grade of their 5 OL.  How often are they in 22 personel?  (which is two tight ends)  What was the pass block grades of their TEs?  Run block of their TEs?

 

Their TEs were last in pass block grade in the league.  Which is scary because they use 2 TEs second most in the league.

I'm not saying PFF is perfect, far from it.  Also I'm not saying the Jets are exactly the 10th best OL after two weeks, but I think you are coming to a very strong conclusion based off of some limited data points.

 

 

 

 

I think there are plenty of data points where PFF is just so off.  Unfortunately there really isn't other grade for players like it.  They need competition.

 

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, SBBlue said:

I think there are plenty of data points where PFF is just so off.  Unfortunately there really isn't other grade for players like it.  They need competition.

 

lol, what data points do you think they are using to get their grades?  That's not how their grades work, they aren't plugging sacks or ypc and such into some formula. Its an eye test, each player is graded independently on each play.       

What data point do you actually think they are off on?  They can add up sacks just like you can, but what they are doing is assigning blame to the correct person.  Maybe that sack was on the TE missing his block, or the QB not throwing to his wide open 1st read, whereas the fan sees 6 sacks and automatically thinks the OL has to be the worst in the league.

Did you ever actually look up their grade after the game against us, you have gone on and on about them being ranked 10th but that was after two games.  Their grade was actually pretty bad against us.