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Opinions: 2016 SB defense


Jmac
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23 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

The best defenses to date imo.

2013, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2015. 

I think this team has the talent to surpass all those teams, the great thing it is a young squad, poised to get better. 

2005? 

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I didnt even address the '16 roster but I loved the '13 group. Which was without a doubt the hardest hitting of the bunch imo. (which I admit I love)... love teams that repeatedly hit you in the mouth. Which was one of the reasons I was sad to see Mitchell go. If I'm putting '13 vs '21 :

2021 Defense (2-0 start)

Fox, Jones, Brown, Burns

Riddick, Carter Jr, Shaq

Jackson, Horn 

Chinn, Burris

Vs. 

2013 Defense ...(12-4..started 0-2)

Johnson, Star, Cole, Hardy

TD, Luke, Blackburn

Melvin White, Florence

Mikell, Mitchell

Those were just the starters but that '13 team also had Norman, Short, Dwan Edwards, Munnerlyn, etc.

Just as the '21 has YGM, Bouye, Hartsfield, Haynes, etc. 

I think it's too early to tell but that '13 front seven was extremely tough. Just having Luke brings your defense up remarkably.

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2005 I think was one of the most complete and overlooked. I also struggle with where to put it.   Two great DEs in Pep and Rucker. Buck in the middle.   Morgan and Spoon at the second level.  Gamble and Lucas at CB.  I think people forget how good Lucas was early here because of how bad he got at the end.   Minter at S.    

most dominant postseason game by a defense.  Think the Giants had 100 yards of offense and they pitched a shutout. 

injuries late on O killed that team’s chances

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1 hour ago, ColumbusCounty said:

I didnt even address the '16 roster but I loved the '13 group. Which was without a doubt the hardest hitting of the bunch imo. (which I admit I love)... love teams that repeatedly hit you in the mouth. Which was one of the reasons I was sad to see Mitchell go. If I'm putting '13 vs '21 :

2021 Defense (2-0 start)

Fox, Jones, Brown, Burns

Riddick, Carter Jr, Shaq

Jackson, Horn 

Chinn, Burris

Vs. 

2013 Defense ...(12-4..started 0-2)

Johnson, Star, Cole, Hardy

TD, Luke, Blackburn

Melvin White, Florence

Mikell, Mitchell

Those were just the starters but that '13 team also had Norman, Short, Dwan Edwards, Munnerlyn, etc.

Just as the '21 has YGM, Bouye, Hartsfield, Haynes, etc. 

I think it's too early to tell but that '13 front seven was extremely tough. Just having Luke brings your defense up remarkably.

I think the 2013 Defense doesn't get enough credit bc we didn't have any playoff success, but that still remains arguably the very best Front 7 we've ever had. Other than Mitchell, we had straight JAG's (at best) in the secondary. And they still dominated bc the pass rush was just so dominant. And teams weren't running on prime Luke & TD.  Hardy and CJ were straight prototypical 4-3 monsters.  Burns and Reddick are speed personified and can be every bit as effective, but they are smaller guys, more like Lamar Lathon and Kevin Greene.

If 2021 Defense is speed personified, the 2013 defense was violence personified.

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I believe this year's defense will be the most consistent group from year to year. Most of that falls on the coach and GM. We were amazing in 2015, but that extraordinarily high production wasn't to that level before and after. I think we find out what it is like to ball year in and year out.

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8 hours ago, Seltzer said:

I think the 2013 Defense doesn't get enough credit bc we didn't have any playoff success, but that still remains arguably the very best Front 7 we've ever had. Other than Mitchell, we had straight JAG's (at best) in the secondary. And they still dominated bc the pass rush was just so dominant. And teams weren't running on prime Luke & TD.  Hardy and CJ were straight prototypical 4-3 monsters.  Burns and Reddick are speed personified and can be every bit as effective, but they are smaller guys, more like Lamar Lathon and Kevin Greene.

If 2021 Defense is speed personified, the 2013 defense was violence personified.

You can't hit what you can't get to.  I wouldn't say this defense doesn't have hard hitters, the game rules have limited that somewhat.  

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14 hours ago, Shocker said:

The 2015 defense had Luke at his best in the middle…

If You Say So Reaction GIF by Identity

In my dreams, Luke has been watching what this young, hungry Defense is doing and he is secretly working out like a madman to rejoin the team halfway thru the season. Can you imagine how unstoppable we would be with him added to this mix? 

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14 hours ago, Moo Daeng said:

They were 6th in yards allowed and 6th in points allowed. That's not really bending.

 

It's a philosophy. Rivera/McDermott wanted to keep everything in front of them even if it meant soft coverage. Rhule/Snow prefer aggressing blitzing and smothering. Two different types of defenses.

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The biggest advantage this defense has imo is that it is built for the times. In 2015 the league was still a pass heavy league but we had very little investment in our DBs. We could obliterate the run game and we could rush the passer, but if we didn't get to the QB quickly enough, guys would be open downfield. 

This defense has been built to blanket receivers and aid the vicious pass rush. Half the team can drop back in coverage effectively. Burns, Reddick, Shaq etc. And then we finally invested in the secondary. Horn looks like a legit lockdown CB in the making, Jackson continues to improve, Chinn we already know is elite and can play pretty much anywhere and we haven't even seen the defense with Bouye yet. 

And lastly, we have a DC who is damn creative in what he does with all of our versatility. Ron Rivera knew how to build a defense but he was one of the most predictable coaches in the league and so you always knew sort of what we would try to do. Snow has a bunch of players than can be moved all over the field. And he isn't afraid to mix up what they are doing and keep the opposition guessing. 

It is too early but IMO there is a real chance this defense could become our best ever. Maybe not this year, but in time. I mean half this defense is playing on rookie deals currently and they are our better half of our squad. The potential this unit has is pretty staggering. 

Edited by TheMostInterestingMan
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18 hours ago, CRA said:

In no real order, 2015, 1996, 2003 and 2005 are the 4 best defensive teams to date IMO.  All unique. 

this unit has potential.  And you really got to like it if they can keep adding to it given the age of some of the studs.  It’s a young foundation.  I could see them jumping some of those prior teams. 

Completely absurd to have 2015 over 2013 here. 2013 is our highest ranked defense of any season in both yards and points against.

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    • Not quite accurate because you're mostly looking just at the guys who followed him directly from Baylor. Sean Ryan was on staff alongside Rhule when he was with the Giants. So was Al Holcomb, and he was already here so it was an easy hire. Kevin Gilbride was on staff with Rhule at Temple rather than Baylor. His dad also coached with Rhule on the Giants staff. Terrance Knighton didn't coach with Rhule, but he played for him at Temple. Rhule was actually his position coach for a season. Jason Simmons doesn't have a direct connection with Rhule but he does with Phil Snow. Simmons played for Snow at Arizona State. Mind you, there actually could have been more but some of his guys chose not to follow him. A few others weren't with him long enough or didn't have enough experience to be qualified. Those were the positions that ended up with other people. But even one of those, DL Coach Mike Phair, ended up gone a year later in favor of Rhule's Baylor DL Coach Frank Okam. As to NFL experience, the guys who do have it haven't risen above the level of position coaches.  None of them has been a pro level coordinator that I know of, and definitely no head coaches. Add to this that Rhule had been able to get a couple of guys added in front office and administrative roles. Pat Stewart is the highest. Evan Cooper, Sean Padden and EJ Barthel were the others but Padden and Barthel have departed since (Padden under some questionable circumstances). All in all, there are only about five or six guys on the entire staff that aren't connected to Rhule in some way, most of them on offense. And those are the guys I won't be surprised to become scapegoats for our offensive struggles.
    • Both things can be true. Rivera was wrong for cutting heineke and rivera was right for choosing to stay the course and develop heineke. He could have pulled a matt rhule, bring in qbs and wasting time.
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