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Looking at the big picture, building a team question


PanthersATL
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We all get focused on the trees (O-LINE, QB, RB situation etc).   But let's take a step back and see how we're really doing and examine where our issue really is right now, vs where we can be in 1-3-5 years.  And for all our complaining, we've made a ton of changes over the past x years, all to mostly the same outcomes...

Is our issue... 

  • Ownership?  
    Not really. We've had similar season records (and related play) under Richardson as we've had under Tepper
     
  • GM?
    Jury's still out in the big picture, but we've changed our GM so let's see if that leads to on-field improvement. We've had moments of brilliance this year, let's see how it plays out.
     
  • COACH?
    Not really? Can't tell too much in season two, but all our coaches have had various positive and negative on their records. Fox and Rivera both brought us to the Super Bowl. Even Capers got us to the playoffs in year two. Seifert seemed to have all sorts of trouble in his three seasons, so it looks like Rhule is not going to be ranked as our Worst Performing coach in the history book.
     
  • A specific Asst Coach/Play Caller?
    In some cases -- maybe. But we've changed our play callers over the years. It's not like the NFL gives each team a unique playbook and says "you have to stick with this for the next 10 years"
     
  • A specific player?

    Let's talk QB:  we've changed out QBs (more recently than not). Our last 5 years' records in 2016-2017-2018-2019-2020 was 6-10, 11-5, 7-9, 5-11, 5-11 (Cam, Anderson | Cam | Cam, Heinicke, Allen | Allen, Cam, Grier | Teddy, PJ).  Yes, Cam gave us the 11-5, but he was also involved in the 6-10 and 7-9 seasons too (and partially that 5-11 one). We had issues in 2019 and 2020... so let's say the issues WERE *only* the QB position --- then we're in process of fixing that, whether it be Teddy, Sam, PJ, or some other [insert name here]. So this is still in progress.

    Key Offensive: CMC is a major factor last season and this, so far.  Playing him as much as we have didn't allow us to build up any replacement/alternatives. Greg Olsen was a machine; he proved how solid/important a good TE can be to get a QB out of a jam. We're also short in that department, comparitively speaking.  And the WR crew... we like what we're building towards, if only the can hold onto the ball. Those dropsies are fixable. They have to be.

    O-LINE -- yeah, our o-line needs work this season and moving forward. Have the overall changes that in place now better or worse than what we've had over the last 5 years... or is it setting the base for the future?

    DEFENSE -- losing Luke and TD is tough pill to swallow, but our D has, over the years, been the more positive part of our team more often than not. A tweak here and there, and some extra spare wheels to spin in and out to keep those Thieves fresh, and we should be doing okay. Changes? Do we need changes here right now?

My point (and I guess the question) is while we can all call out for "change this one thing, change that one thing" after every game -- we've made a lot of changes in the past 2 seasons. Are we making the right ones, and compared to other teams -- do you think we've been making the right choices overall?

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It really comes down to 3 things for me: Questionable head coaching decisions, Oline, and QB play. The Oline realistically has 1 quality starter in Moton, everyone else can be replaced.

The QB is not good. He's young and has shown flashes of quality play but so far the bad has outweighed the good, as has been the case for his entire career. There doesn't seem to be any reason to think that his bad tendencies can be coached out of him at this point.

Having a bad QB really limits what an offense can do which is what Rhule has been hinting at with his "run the ball more" and "we're a defensive team" comments.

But Rhule has to be blamed in all this because its his fault we have a mediocre oline and a mediocre QB. Like him or not (I dont), we're stuck with him at this point because the owner believes in him. Fitterer looks like he knows what he's doing which is why I still have a little bit of hope for the future.

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5 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

You know....I've thought of something :

Many of us see that Sam is more than likely not the future here but what if Rhule is not of the same mind?

What if he believes that Sam can still be salvaged?

 

then Matt Rhule should be shown the door

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3 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think the plan has always been to build the team then plunk in the QB last.

We have taken hail mary shots at the QB position but have not dedicated to a player.

If they would work we would be years a head but I dont think the plan is to draft a guy until 2023. 

 

I think you are exactly right.

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The offense is a dumpster fire.  It clearly needs attention.  The team knows it.  I'm hoping they actually target it and not go overly bpa.  If they aren't drafting heavy offense this draft then that would be very disappointing.

 

Edited by Luciu5
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35 minutes ago, Lemory said:

It really comes down to 3 things for me: Questionable head coaching decisions, Oline, and QB play. The Oline realistically has 1 quality starter in Moton, everyone else can be replaced.

The QB is not good. He's young and has shown flashes of quality play but so far the bad has outweighed the good, as has been the case for his entire career. There doesn't seem to be any reason to think that his bad tendencies can be coached out of him at this point.

Having a bad QB really limits what an offense can do which is what Rhule has been hinting at with his "run the ball more" and "we're a defensive team" comments.

But Rhule has to be blamed in all this because its his fault we have a mediocre oline and a mediocre QB. Like him or not (I dont), we're stuck with him at this point because the owner believes in him. Fitterer looks like he knows what he's doing which is why I still have a little bit of hope for the future.

This basically nails the bulk of the issue. Key mistakes basically put us in an untenable situation this season. The extremely poor decisions at QB and OL have basically crippled our offense. Add in some predictable and ill-advised offensive playcalling, some questionable preparation and questionable in game coaching as a whole and you end up where we are currently. 

But, on the positive side, the personnel issues are far fewer than we had in 2020. Even as bad as this seems now, we aren't THAT far away from being a contending/competitive team. 

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36 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

I think the plan has always been to build the team then plunk in the QB last.

We have taken hail mary shots at the QB position but have not dedicated to a player.

If they would work we would be years a head but I dont think the plan is to draft a guy until 2023. 

 

I think this is the most plausible scenario as well. The Chiefs had success building this way. Hopefully we will too. 

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For me its about adding young talent........now the rams are on everyones mind and they are taking a different path. I think there is success in what they are doing, but not if half the league is also doing the same. Rams are alone and with the draft picks they used, GREAT picks.

Finding a legit QB covers up many other issues. Think about Pats without Tom, hawks without Russ, and green bay without Arod...... no chance at getting the same wins or long term success teams had without them touching the ball.

Many other ways, I feel adding young talent is the best overall for the now and ten years form now. Sometimes all a team needs a decent HC, 49ers are a example. 

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38 minutes ago, Panther'sBigD said:

I think this is the most plausible scenario as well. The Chiefs had success building this way. Hopefully we will too. 

You HAVE to take shots at QB's until you find them. Depending on what happens with Watson and the price I wouldn't be opposed at bringing in Tua. 

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1 hour ago, Panther'sBigD said:

I think this is the most plausible scenario as well. The Chiefs had success building this way. Hopefully we will too. 

Andy Reid traded for and brought in a QB day 1…and then immediately started winning.   5 straight winning seasons as contenders before Mahomes became QB.  They couldn’t get over the hump with Smith being so risk adverse.   But QB always mattered to Reid. 

the KC model was never worry about QB last.  

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