Sam's contract and our options

[TheRumGone]

15 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Well than if not you eat the cap but I’m exhausting doing that before I let Sam eat 19 mil and not provide anything on this team and hinder signing important pieces back 

It won’t hinder us signing important pieces back

[MillionDollarCam]

The only and absolutely only reason we should give up more draft capital in order to get rid of Darnold is if Reddick, Jackson, Gilmore, and Cam approach the front office and indicate that they want to stay with the team and that they’d be willing to take team friendly deals to do so. We’d need the extra $18M to keep all four of the players above.

Otherwise Jackson or Gilmore will be gone and at that point you cut Darnold and eat the $18M. There’s absolutely no way you keep him on the roster, he was brought in to be the starter or at the very least compete for the starting job. With Cam supplanting him, his time here is done and a rookie QB should be in order as they would gain a lot from being under Cam’s wing.

Gilmore, Reddick, Jackson, Cam, and Luvu are the only guys that are really must haves in my opinion.

It would be nice to keep DaQuan Jones, Juston Burris, Brandon Zylstra, Marquise Haynes, Jermaine Carter, and Kenny Robinson but they are replaceable if it comes down the issue with cap space.

Edited November 16, 2021 by MillionDollarCam

[Jackie Lee]

So with signings/restructures, do bonuses that don't effect the cap come out of Teppers pocket? Cuz he doesn't give a fug about $10m here or there to keep Cam/Haason/Gilmore/Shaq happy

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, Luciu5 said:

Voidable years like we did when we signed Reddick.  Reddick's on a two year deal but next year is voidable.  In other words, part of his salary this year doesn't hit the cap till next year. I'd imagine Sam would have to agree to that. All sorts of accounting magic can be done.

Darnolds cap hit is as inconsequential as the FO wants it to be. Personally I'd eat the cap this year and if we are going to kick anything down the road, do so with players actually on the roster.

 

1 hour ago, joemac said:

Yeah, thats kinda what I had in mind.  Only thing though is that his agent will probably try and talk him out of something like that, considering that hes due 18 million next year if he does nothing.  But I do like the voidable years idea.  Resign him to a 3 year 20 million dollar contract with an 18 million dollar signing bonus, which can then get spread out over 3 years instead of all at once.  Am I talking out of my ass?  Is this even possible?

There is no reason for him to spread it out over multiple years unless we sweeten the pot.  In theory you could restructure his contract to 2 years for $22m with a $20m signing bonus with the second year being a voidable year.  His cap hit would be $10m in 2022 and 2023 instead of $18.8m for one year.  Sam would get an extra $1.2m and the team would gain some cap relievein 2022 but then they would have more dead money in 2023.  In reality the team is just wasting more cap space overall.

55 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

If the Saints can pull off these stunts without penalty seems like anything is possible as long as a player agrees to it

Taysom Hill is different because he is still on the team.  Once you cut a player the voidable years accelerate into the current year or over 2 years if you do a June 1st.

Example of $20m spread over 5 years, 4 of which are voidable. 

$4m 2022, $4m 2023, $4m 2024, $4m 2025, $4m 2026.

If you cut the player in 2022 your cap hit is $20m.

If you designate a June 1st cut your 2022 cap hit is $4m, your 2023 cap hit is $16m.

You don't' get to keep spreading the cap hit over the voidable years once you cut the player.

 

 

[cardiackat88.]

Can we have him officially sign an extension deal with no bonus or guaranteed money on the books for vet minimum then cut him him at no cost and have Tepper shower him with the difference and/or "hush money"? lol

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

If we can't somehow dump him in a trade, I would just cut him. He is taking up room on the roster and cannot help us even in the case of injury. 

It's just time to move on if he can't be moved.

 

33 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Hopefully we can eat some salary and trade him for something. That's what we had to do with Teddy. If not, just eat it and cut him. The cap hit is the same either way and he's useless on the roster.

Its very possible they just release him, I don't see us salvaging much of anything, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him on the roster during the offseason. 

There is zero incentive to cut him before then.  On IR he isn't' taking up a roster spot.  Once the offseason starts the rosters go to 90 so the spot isn't that important. 

Lets be honest, there are 5-10 guys on every 90 man roster that everyone knows have close to zero chances of making it.  Also you usually have extra QBs just to make sure you have enough arms to run drills.

I'm not saying that is what they should do, but it could see them reasoning it out they way.

 

[Khyber53]

I'll say that I think Sam, minus the salary, is what you look for in a back up QB. He's no threat to take over the locker room, he doesn't push your starting QB, he knows the playbook and the tendencies of the players involved. He had some games where he was successful and in an emergency he might be able to go with the game plan and hold his own.

He doesn't belong as a starter, he gets rattled when the game is planned to exploit his weaknesses, he's had some injuries but nothing that knocks him out of the league. That pretty much sums up the second string QB on most teams. 

We're paying him already next season, no way around that. We can't realistically trade him without basically giving up more draft picks on top of the ones he's already cost us. Might as well let him ride the pine and be able to make use of him in a pinch while he hopefully gets better at film study and quits seeing ghosts.

We may have to find a good starter next season, we sure don't want to have to look for a back-up as well while paying someone big bucks to sit at home.

[CRA]

we cut him.  we eat the cap hit. 

Sam serves no purprose here.  That's the cold reality of the NFL. 

[PhillyB]

if cam plays lights out this year and we bring him back as our presumptive starter next year, given his vet status and age i think you heavily limit his preseason snaps and play sam darnold nonstop in hopes he'll either light it up enough to convince a needy team to trade for him (or hope it's evidence he's grown as a quarterback and can hang around as an expensive backup.)

but more than likely it's a bad mistake we're gonna have to eat. luckily we're pretty good on cap next year.

[TheRumGone]

10 minutes ago, CRA said:

we cut him.  we eat the cap hit. 

Sam serves no purprose here.  That's the cold reality of the NFL. 

Yeah I don’t know why people aren’t getting this. If he stays as backup we’re fuged if he has to go in. I’m gonna assume he’s horrible in the film room since he has no idea what he’s doing out there. He’s just a good teammate. That’s it. Tons of good teammates and pros in the nfl. I’d take pj again over him. Pj just went up against the #4 defense and did what a backup is suppose to do. Imagine If Sam played Sunday. Jesus. 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

Yeah I don’t know why people aren’t getting this. If he stays as backup we’re fuged if he has to go in. I’m gonna assume he’s horrible in the film room since he has no idea what he’s doing out there. He’s just a good teammate. That’s it. Tons of good teammates and pros in the nfl. I’d take pj again over him. Pj just went up against the #4 defense and did what a backup is suppose to do. Imagine If Sam played Sunday. Jesus. 

yep, PJ has done his job twice.  Sam has imploded those type ideal situations.  If your options for backup are only PJ or Sam? PJ. 

 

[mrcompletely11]

Sam is going to get cut and we are going to eat the cap.  Or he stays as backup and we still eat the cap.  There is absolutely no way around paying him for 2022

[Shocker]

Keep him as the #3 QB…he may be useful in some capacity no reason to release him

[Evil Hurney]

26 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

I'll say that I think Sam, minus the salary, is what you look for in a back up QB. He's no threat to take over the locker room, he doesn't push your starting QB, he knows the playbook and the tendencies of the players involved. He had some games where he was successful and in an emergency he might be able to go with the game plan and hold his own.

He doesn't belong as a starter, he gets rattled when the game is planned to exploit his weaknesses, he's had some injuries but nothing that knocks him out of the league. That pretty much sums up the second string QB on most teams. 

We're paying him already next season, no way around that. We can't realistically trade him without basically giving up more draft picks on top of the ones he's already cost us. Might as well let him ride the pine and be able to make use of him in a pinch while he hopefully gets better at film study and quits seeing ghosts.

We may have to find a good starter next season, we sure don't want to have to look for a back-up as well while paying someone big bucks to sit at home.

Agreed. A decent backup QB is going to cost around $5M.

Cutting Sam and then signing a guy will result in even less cap space just to get a comparable level of player. Of note, PJ is an RFA after this season; I have no idea what he will cost.

I'm onboard with paying the $18M or extending Sam to a backup level contract. If Sam thinks he is still a starter let him seek a trade. Much like Teddy he'll be much more willing to renegotiate his contract to facilitate a trade.