PSL Marketplace Update.

[Jgsaltwater]

I think seats die with the stadium 

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, hepcat said:

PSLs are a solid investment even if the Panthers are ass because Charlotte is a transplant city full of fans ready to fill the stadium to watch their team pound the Panthers dicks into mince meat.

The uptown location of the stadium in close proximity to many hotels and the airport make it an even better investment. 

Doesn't matter if the team is good or bad. Tepper gets paid either way. He has no financial incentive to field a winning team.

It depends on the teams playing 

only two are sure fire this year, Steelers snd Bucs if Darnold returns but here is the problem, those buyers also know the panthers suck so I would be lucky to get 20% of what i paid for them 

 

[raleigh-panther]

14 minutes ago, mcsmoak said:

Can someone explain to me what would happen if a new stadium were to be built?  Let’s say I purchased a PSL for however much money and a week later a new stadium is announced.  Am I fvcked or would it transfer over?

You would be offered a chance of purchase at the new stadium before public offering but that is it 

btw. Don’t expect equal value.  The seats in the new stadium are likely to be anywhere from 2 to 5 times as much as current 

[travisura]

10 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

You would be offered a chance of purchase at the new stadium before public offering but that is it 

btw. Don’t expect equal value.  The seats in the new stadium are likely to be anywhere from 2 to 5 times as much as current 

That would probably be the real jumping off point for a lot of folks. If the Panthers aren't winning by then, why pay even more to see them lose in a fancier building?

[raleigh-panther]

11 minutes ago, travisura said:

That would probably be the real jumping off point for a lot of folks. If the Panthers aren't winning by then, why pay even more to see them lose in a fancier building?

Yes

im really disheartened. I renewed  for 4 years believing they would draft a qb

never ever did I believe at least two of those years would be Darnold 

Edited January 10, 2022 by raleigh-panther

[Anybodyhome]

2 hours ago, hepcat said:

PSLs are a solid investment

Investments are, by definition, a profit or loss venture. As long as there is inventory, they are not a profitable venture. There is no reason for me to pay a premium to Mr. Smith for PSLs when I can buy the ones next to him from the organization.

2 hours ago, BrianS said:

This is why I hate PSL's.    Winning is irrelevant.

Absolutely correct.

1 hour ago, davos said:

And PSLs have passed the point of decent returns so selling now is more just out of letting them go rather than cashing in on them. 

Exactly why I decided to let mine go several years back. After 17 years, I just felt the product was not worth the price, the time (travel & game time), expenses, etc. I got my initial buy-in back and a couple bucks extra because I'd sold some individual game tickets to the buyer over the previous couple years.

[raleigh-panther]

I didn’t buy them for a profit or loss

i bought them to enjoy the Nfl with a team I could support and enjoy the experience with my friends 

you see I could support Rhule if he made smart Nfl decisions in his own staff  the players   In game strategy  

simple things like you must try and draft a lt or qb if you don’t have one or the dollars to get one 

you gave to build the lines 

you gave to understand game planning around strengths and weaknesses   Yesterday need an les than a foot rin st tampas strength 

he has failed at every single one of those 

 

[45catfan]

2 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

Gone Guys chatter surrounding PSL's has been ongoing for many months and reached a crescendo this past week, so I thought now would be a good time to update you on how the PSL marketplace has been trending. 

My premise is PSL holders are a very predictable bunch and are in it for the long haul...through good-times and bad-times...but given  all the carping and gnashing of teeth by the Gone Guys, I decided to start watching PSL sales closely.

Conclusion:  There is nothing in the PSL marketplace to indicate any sort of behavioral sea-change by PSL holders, partners who are the bedrock of the Panthers business plan.

Listings for seats/PSL's available for sale are actually lower than 2-months ago.

date/#listings/#seats

Novy 7 > 640 > 1,625

Novy 9 > 648 > 1,646  (peak, Cam signed)

Dec 6 > 617 > 1,529

Dec 28 > 597 > 1,468  (floor 1, Rhule retained)

Dec 29 > 609 > 1,501

Jan 3 > 593 > 1,451  (floor 2)  

Jan 4 > 626 > 1,542  (BIG* jump, Gone Guys?)

Jan 7 > 632 > 1,557  (2022 peak 2)

Jan 10 > 624 > 1,533 

For perspective, a 2014 Axios article cited 1,700 PSL-seats available and a 2015 article by the same folks cited 2,300 PSL-seats available.

PSL sales are almost exclusively driven by significant life-changes (kids age out, move away, retirement, loss of job, etc) vs. dissatisfaction over the on-field product...not to mention nobody likes to "sell-low" which is exactly what they'd be doing right now. 

Flipside, the 2015 for-sale seat-count was 2,300 which is  fully 50% higher than today, and that makes perfect sense -- times are good, sell high!

The End.

*seems likely the BIG jump is a corporate customer of some sort dumping a large block of seats.

ADDENDUM:

A few bits of info...

PSL accounts number about 23,000.

Those 23,000 accounts control about 62,000 seats (almost 83% of all seats).

Just over 50% of PSL accounts are controlled by "originals", folks who have been in since day-1.

(all numbers pulled from public sources like CBJ, Axios, Observer, etc...)

https://panthers.strmarketplace.com/Permanent-Seat-Licenses/For-Sale.aspx

That is what I have been waiting on...another good season in which I would sale.  Most of the people I knew who sold their PSLs did so after solid seasons.  I don't even bother to post them anymore as I'm sure most PSL holders are in the same boat.  Why continue to list them at extremely reasonable rates and folks won't even sniff them?  It's an exercise in futility.

[Happy Panther]

I tried to sell the bucs boxing day game at face. No luck. We do have the Steelers next year at home which should make some people some money.

 

[Jgsaltwater]

When is the new stadium going to built ? 4-5 years away?

[Happy Panther]

3 hours ago, Jgsaltwater said:

When is the new stadium going to built ? 4-5 years away?

Probably not unless the process started today and went really smoothly. Realistically 10 years.

[Anybodyhome]

22 hours ago, mcsmoak said:

Can someone explain to me what would happen if a new stadium were to be built?  Let’s say I purchased a PSL for however much money and a week later a new stadium is announced.  Am I fvcked or would it transfer over?

All you need to do is go back and read the history of the Dallas Cowboys and the New York Giants building their new stadiums. Both of those storied and very well supported franchises basically kicked their loyal fans for decades and sometimes, generations, to the curb with the new PSLs they were offering. Sure, they gave some of those die-hard fans who've been attending games for years and years the first right of refusal for PSLs, but the prices were ridiculous. Both franchises alienated thousands of fans and, not unlike Charlotte, you can see a lot of the opposing team's fans showing up in Dallas and New York.

All those old fans had season tickets, not a PSL. I had season tickets to the Raiders when they played in the LA Coliseum for 4 seasons. You basically got to buy the entire season worth of tickets (8 games) each year. I think I paid about $700 or 800 for 2 tickets in the lower bowl each year, and they were good seats. Can you imagine paying $350-400 for your seat for 8 games every year? That's like $45-50 a game. Then this PSL thing happens and you're being told your seat is going to run you one time fee of about $10k plus the price of each game ticket. That's where Dallas and NY fans got off the bandwagon.

[SizzleBuzz]

While immaterial to overall Panthers business operations BIG jump today...

...31 new-listings representing 81 seats.

Total seats available now = 1,614 which is still below the Nov-9 peak of 1,646.

For perspective this jump on the heels of the Rhule/Fitty presser yesterday is 2nd in magnitude only to the 33-listing/91-seat jump on 12/28 after expectations that Rhule might be fired on 12/27 were not met.

[Happy Panther]

I wonder what the same data looked like a year ago.