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Wanna talk about Watson… part 59


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20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

With Matt Rhule doing the building...

If Watson has the effect you believe he will, then it becomes much more likely that Matt Rhule stays on.

But if not, you did just say that you don't trust David Tepper to pick his successor. Does David Tepper suddenly get smarter if Deshaun Watson is here?

This whole scenario is hugely flawed.

Watson doesn't automatically make everything that's bad better.

DW is first and foremost the foundational piece you build organizations around. We would just be doing this in reverse because we have incompetent ownership and staff. So instead of getting a new coach and GM we would be getting a franchise qb with the longterm goal of getting the right coach and GM around him. Again this is a long term move, a decade plus. You keep leaving that part out. Matt rhule has nothing to do with this. I hope he gets fired the year after bringing in Deshaun. And I don’t care if Scott stays either. I never said Watson automatically makes everything that’s bad better. What I did say was that franchise qbs make your team better and allow you to compete. They are the most important piece of any organization.

 

This is why it is so annoying debating anything with you. You don’t comprehend what people are saying and you put words in peoples mouths and then debate that. 

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The Panthers can't afford Watson. Practically or morally. We can't put a competitive team on the field as is. Trading away players and draft capital for one guy just doesn't make sense. If he gets injured, which is a distinct possibility behind a crappy OL, it will all be a waste.

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15 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

DW is first and foremost the foundational piece you build organizations around. We would just be doing this in reverse because we have incompetent ownership and staff. So instead of getting a new coach and GM we would be getting a franchise qb with the longterm goal of getting the right coach and GM around him. Again this is a long term move, a decade plus. You keep leaving that part out. Matt rhule has nothing to do with this. I hope he gets fired the year after bringing in Deshaun. And I don’t care if Scott stays either. I never said Watson automatically makes everything that’s bad better. What I did say was that franchise qbs make your team better and allow you to compete. They are the most important piece of any organization.

 

This is why it is so annoying debating anything with you. You don’t comprehend what people are saying and you put words in peoples mouths and then debate that. 

I comprehend what you're saying. I just don't happen to think it's very wise.

Also have to wonder...if we're building everything on the foundation of Deshaun Watson with the idea that he's going to somehow lead us to better coaching, smarter ownership and whatever else, what happens when he retires?

Is the whole organization better for the perpetual future just because we've been touched by Watson?

Edited by Mr. Scot
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12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I comprehend what you're saying. I just don't happen to think it's very wise.

Also have to wonder...if we're building everything on the foundation of Deshaun Watson with the idea that he's going to somehow lead us to better coaching, smarter ownership and whatever else, what happens when he retires?

Is the whole organization better for the perpetual future just because we've been touched by Watson?

What the fug

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19 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

What the fug

Riiiiight.

Tell ya what. Lemme give ya another angle on it.

If the acquisition of a franchise quarterback is some kind of foundational catalyst for turning a team around, then why do the Panthers look like horse sh-t just ten years after drafting Cam Newton?

Hell, for that matter, why didn't Watson turn the Texans around when they had him?

And if your answer is anything along the lines of "well, they're just that terrible of an organization", I have some bad news for you...

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1 hour ago, USDepartmentOfSavagery said:

I doubt Rhule stays if he only wins 7 games with Watson as QB. If he does, then I guess it really doesn’t matter what our organization does, does it? 

It'll be improvement on what Rhule has done so far. Since Tepper has said the NFL is a .500 league, that's probably good enough, especially with the contract Tepper gave Rhule.

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Riiiiight.

Tell ya what. Lemme give ya another angle on it.

If the acquisition of a franchise quarterback is some kind of foundational catalyst for turning a team around, then why are the Panthers such a sh-tty organization just ten years after drafting Cam Newton?

Hell, for that matter, why didn't Watson turn the Texans around when they had him?

And if your answer is anything along the lines of "well, they're just that terrible of an organization", I have some bad news for you...

So if you give up 3 firsts for DW and we’re talking about a decade plus career with us we’d have 7+ drafts and the opportunity for a new coach and GM who are better than Matt rhule but with the added bonus of already securing a franchise qb. I’m not sure what you’re even arguing about right now. You act like we can’t do anything for the rest of deshauns career if we did this trade. I keep repeating this is a long term move. You always wanna pair a qb with a good coach and GM that can maximize their talents and the teams talents. Do you think organizations should just pass up on franchise qbs because they don’t have a good coach? That doesn’t make sense.
 

the panthers didn’t take the qb position seriously when cam got hurt, his release and the qbs signed after cam. There was no transition. You act like we can’t do these things with deshaun here. We can. Hardest thing to find in any org is a franchise qb. Harder than finding a good coach or GM. 

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Lmao I think it’s hilarious how people don’t want anything to do with Watson over the allegations. I mean you don’t have to like the guy personally, he just needs to win games which he does. I don’t think people realize how many scumbags are on each NFL team. A lot of it gets covered up but just because a player is donating money to a charity doesn’t mean he isn’t doing bad things behind the scenes.

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4 hours ago, hepcat said:

The price was at least 3 first round picks and multiple starting defensive players last I checked. And Watson would have to waive his no trade clause. 

It's a short sighted move IMO. Tepper talks about not wanting to be mediocre and all that but it's not a team building move for the long haul. Those types of trades almost always benefit the team receiving all the assets more than the team receiving one player. It'd be Herschel Walker all over again.

Sean Gilbert all over again.

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10 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

So if you give up 3 firsts for DW and we’re talking about a decade plus career with us we’d have 7+ drafts and the opportunity for a new coach and GM who are better than Matt rhule but with the added bonus of already securing a franchise qb. I’m not sure what you’re even arguing about right now. You act like we can’t do anything for the rest of deshauns career if we did this trade. I keep repeating this is a long term move. You always wanna pair a qb with a good coach and GM that can maximize their talents and the teams talents. Do you think organizations should just pass up on franchise qbs because they don’t have a good coach? That doesn’t make sense.

the panthers didn’t take the qb position seriously when cam got hurt, his release and the qbs signed after cam. There was no transition. You act like we can’t do these things with deshaun here. We can. Hardest thing to find in any org is a franchise qb. Harder than finding a good coach or GM. 

A few posts back you said that you didn't trust Tepper to get a better coach than Rhule. Now you're citing the opportunity to get a better coach and GM as a reason for trading?

If we get Watson, is Tepper somehow going to get smarter?

Sorry, but this theory that getting Watson is somehow going to make this organization do other stuff better just doesn't hold water. Heck, plenty of other bad teams have drafted or acquired good quarterbacks. It hasn't magically transformed them into good organizations.

You want Watson? Cool. You can argue for that without coming up with crazy ideas like the organization is suddenly going to get better around him.

Me? I think there are too many risks given his current situation and what we'd have to give up to get him. I'd much rather try and fix the organization first before watching us waste yet another quarterback on top of wasting other team building resources.

It's pretty simple.

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

A few posts back you said that you didn't trust Tepper to get a better coach than Rhule. Now you're citing the opportunity to get a better coach and GM as a reason for trading?

If we get Watson, is Tepper somehow going to get smarter?

Sorry, but this theory that getting Watson is somehow going to make this organization do other stuff better just doesn't hold water. Heck, plenty of other bad teams have drafted or acquired good quarterbacks. It hasn't magically transformed them into good organizations.

You want Watson? Cool. You can argue for that without coming up with crazy ideas like the organization is suddenly going to get better around him.

Me? I think there are too many risks given his current situation and what we'd have to give up to get him. I'd much rather try and fix the organization first before watching us waste yet another quarterback on top of wasting other team building resources.

It's pretty simple.

I never said that’s the reason for the trade.  I never said Watson would suddenly make us make better decisions. Stop twisting words to fit your narrative. I said we’d still have an OPPORTUNITY to get a good coach BUT with the added bonus of having a franchise qb in place for the long term. I’d rather have the franchise qb secured than hope we get a good coach who can then pick a franchise qb.  One is secured and known (Watson). The other two are not sure things on the other path. I’ve been super clear about this and you keep twisting it. It’s fine if you don’t want Watson but goddamn dude I don’t know how much clearer I can make this. I have nothing else to talk about with you.

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4 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

I never said that’s the reason for the trade.  I never said Watson would suddenly make us make better decisions. Stop twisting words to fit your narrative. I said we’d still have an OPPORTUNITY to get a good coach BUT with the added bonus of having a franchise qb in place for the long term. I’d rather have the franchise qb secured than hope we get a good coach who can then pick a franchise qb.  One is secured and known (Watson). The other two are not sure things on the other path. I’ve been super clear about this and you keep twisting it. It’s fine if you don’t want Watson but goddamn dude I don’t know how much clearer I can make this. I have nothing else to talk about with you.

Your own posts are there for all to see.

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