CJ Henderson

[ForJimmy]

23 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

He's still in year 3 of his contract, I doubt even if he plays well next year they'll think he's worth the 5th year option for that high of a pick. He might pick things up and play well, just seems essentially like a 2 year rental. For reference Jags took LB Chad Muma with our 3rd round pick, and Nakobe Dean was also still available, those both seem like better long term investments for your "brand/process"

CB is more of a premium position than LB lately.  Dean is probably going to take a year to get healthy.  Henderson has all the physical tools an elite CB needs, he just needs to put it all together mentally.  If Wilks can teach him then we will be happy to have only given up a 3rd for him.  The DJax contract does make me think they aren't all in on Henderson though...

[davos]

1 hour ago, AceMan said:

I expect CJ to be traded mid-season after Keith Taylor takes that 2nd/3rd CB spot

Very excited for Taylor. He looked like a steal. Had some rookie moments but the good and flashes of potential far outweighed the bad. From a CB producing program as well.

[poundaway]

CJ's play was putrid last year.

Hoping for a step up this year.

[davos]

We spent a 3rd on Henderson. He may not have shown to be worth pick 9 overall, but he’s looked completely respectable as a pick 70-100 selection.

[pantherj]

Physically he has all the tools to be a #1 CB. I think it's the mental side of the game that is holding him back. If he catches on to our defense he can be dominant. If he doesn't then he won't be offered a second contract.

[TheSpecialJuan]

Oh now all of you love him now? How convenient, I'm disgusted with all of you.  

[Waldo]

30 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We already knew we were going to try to resign Donte and let’s be honest, no one on the team was blowing up enough to be unaffordable. We also traded for Gilmore too and I assumed thought about resigning him. Giving up pick 70 for CJ was a bad move. Even if he’s good enough to be the nickel, you don’t pick a nickel at 70. If he doesn’t start, a real risk when we acquired him, the. It was a complete waste. It’s like the Robby deal or the Darnold trade and picking up the 5th. We were basically bidding against ourselves and rushing to do these deals with players other teams wouldn’t have done the deals or trades for but we’re desperate. That’s why draft picks are even more valuable to us. We aren’t a FA destination so the draft means more.

CJ has upside and Donte is just overpriced now. Maybe we can unload him to a needy team if CJ steps up because if he does then he is heads and shoulders above Donte who is a little meh with speed. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Waldo

[RJK]

He seems to have always gotten by on his athleticism. That doesn’t work in the NFL. Not sure he has the desire to do all the work off the field to improve. We shall see. 

[kungfoodude]

21 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

Oh now all of you love him now? How convenient, I'm disgusted with all of you.  

[ForJimmy]

51 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Don’t forget we also made the Gilmore trade after we had CJ a few weeks.

That's when we were extra stupid and thought we were a playoff team.  Gilmore was to replace Horn after he got hurt.   

[BrianS]

58 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We already knew we were going to try to resign Donte and let’s be honest, no one on the team was blowing up enough to be unaffordable. We also traded for Gilmore too and I assumed thought about resigning him. Giving up pick 70 for CJ was a bad move. Even if he’s good enough to be the nickel, you don’t pick a nickel at 70. If he doesn’t start, a real risk when we acquired him, the. It was a complete waste. It’s like the Robby deal or the Darnold trade and picking up the 5th. We were basically bidding against ourselves and rushing to do these deals with players other teams wouldn’t have done the deals or trades for but we’re desperate. That’s why draft picks are even more valuable to us. We aren’t a FA destination so the draft means more.

You can't second guess against value like that, it's unfair.  At the time they made the trade, it wasn't pick 70.  It could have been pick 96!  At the time, the FO was talking playoffs - right or wrong.  They were thinking that pick was going to be mid 80's at best.

This is nothing like the Anderson or Darnold deals.  Anderson got paid for a career year while Coach 1000 was in full command.  Yes, that was a bad deal.  Darnold had no consistently good tape on him.  Yes, he could make some eye popping plays, but those were both good and horrible plays.  That was a bad deal.  

There was good tape on CJ Henderson, and the appearance was that he had fallen out of favor with the coaching staff.  He was highly coveted out of college, and we got him for a steal.  You also had to consider we just lost one starting CB for the year - and another left the same game with a foot injury which we didn't really know the extent of.

If you want to criticize the Gilmore trade, ok, I can kinda see that.  That one didn't make a lot of sense except in bringing a veteran to the room.  Great player, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure it was a trade we needed to make.

[PNW_PantherMan]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

You can't second guess against value like that, it's unfair.  At the time they made the trade, it wasn't pick 70.  It could have been pick 96!  At the time, the FO was talking playoffs - right or wrong.  They were thinking that pick was going to be mid 80's at best.

Well then that's just silly of them, in my opinion.  They talk about how building the team is a multi year process, but then go and do short sighted stuff to win now.  You could argue that CJ was a long term investment, but that view of the draft choices value is very "win now".  

I see a lot of sentiment about how draft picks are overrated, and the team with the most picks doesn't win the Super Bowl etc.  But the reality is we really needed those picks we gave away, and it was painfully obvious as the draft unfolded.  That reflects a poor evaluation of where the team is at and/or poor planning.

[Jackie Lee]

31 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Well then that's just silly of them, in my opinion.  They talk about how building the team is a multi year process, but then go and do short sighted stuff to win now.  You could argue that CJ was a long term investment, but that view of the draft choices value is very "win now".  

I see a lot of sentiment about how draft picks are overrated, and the team with the most picks doesn't win the Super Bowl etc.  But the reality is we really needed those picks we gave away, and it was painfully obvious as the draft unfolded.  That reflects a poor evaluation of where the team is at and/or poor planning.

Another situation where if CJ flashes this year we either have to pick up his 5th year option already or extend him not knowing if his 2022 season was just a flash in the pan or not. Also will have to figure out Derrick Brown and Jeremy Chinn's deals at the same time. Would have rather taken one the LB's available in the 3rd this year and had them on cheap deals through 2026 if we were really looking at a proper build. Can't really go all in with these gamble trades in year 2 and pretend like you have some long term vision. 

[Basbear]

5 hours ago, stbugs said:

It was still a dumb trade to give up a high 3rd rounder if the plan was resigning Donte. Basically, we have a cheap CJ for two years (his 5th year will not be cheap as a top 10 pick) but we only have the slot CB spot open with Horn and Donte. Lots of good players at a lot of spots (LB, OL) we’re available at pick 70. Heck, we could have just kept our 2023 3rd and 2022 4th and taken Corral there.

It just sucks the lack of foresight our GM has had in these trades or pushback. We backed up the Brinks truck to enrich the Jets and Jags with great picks for guys who likely would have been way cheaper later. Somehow we thought they were great and had to have them only to sign another CB in Gilmore, resign Donte and draft a QB/try to trade for multiple QBs. CJ looks to be another wasted pick given his limited opportunities regardless if he becomes decent. 

I believe you will be eating fresh crow very soon about CJ. CB is one of those spots- "you can never have too many" Nickle is base- horn, CJ, and Djack thats a freaky group. Jc horn and Cj have the same 9.999994859 RAS score.

You did not included the jags 5th, which was the first pick in the 5th. If you do draft maths........ the points equal a 4th. Dan Arnold was part of the trade and hes not trash, but hes also at best a 25 snap per game player too.  

CJ henderson was the 9th overall pick in 2020 draft and all the panthers had to pay him was 6mill for 2.5 years(rough #s). Perfect risk to take, fully supported for me. Do the same trade right now 10/10. Just about every team had CJ as a top ten pick, jags and panthers were not alone. 

All CJ has to do is play at a 4th value range, that should be easy with Wilks around.

Not getting into the gilmore deal, you know that move was to prevent the bucs from winning the SB. At the time Horn went down and panthers were in the playoffs as well. No issue either. 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Basbear