Anthony Richardson declares for the draft

[Guild]

Just now, WOW!! said:

I disagree with this based on the cavernous difference between Luck type prospects and Anthony Richardson type prospects..  Litttle to no college production is a issue.. Your basically drafting him on physical talent and hope..

Yep that's what I said Richardson is the next Luck.  You're rrrrrrr

[Rags]

Just now, WOW!! said:

 Litttle to no college production is a issue.. Your basically drafting him on physical talent and hope..

Yeah that's honestly the thing. That's going to be the hangup.

Either you like the prospect and what he could bring because his film is limited and I'm sure for as many wow moments as he's produced, he's probably got just as many infurating ones on Film.

It's probably gonna end up a more extreme Josh Allen situation. Personally I'm more interested in K.J. Jefferson but I can't deny the intrigue of Richardson.

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, Rags said:

Richardson's archtype isn't anything new, he's a passer with limitations but with the legs. Cam did it. Wilson and Kapernick lived by it.  Fields, Allen, Lamar and Hurts are making a living by doing it. The NFLs defenses weakpoint seem to be this, there's no reason to run from it especially being a team who's strength lies in the run game.

Richardson as a runner is big, fast, and strong. His type of running will work in the NFL -- if you liked Malik Wilson or Trey Lance he's a much better runner than both of them -- so again, you have to ask yourself where do you think he'll be as a passer in a few years? Do you think his passing and running ability helps your team in the more immediate future. Though truthfully as fans we'll never really know until we see him on the field in an NFL uniform. 

Richardson can be the next big thing, or he can bust out and be a Jordan Love or a Pat White. But to act like the talent is there especially with the tends of the league is asinine. The arm talent is very apparent, and he's shown the ability to use his arm accurately. He's the Prototype QB. 

I wouldn't write off Love just yet. He's been sitting behind a future HOFer and he's basically the same age as Will Levis.

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Litttle to no college production is a issue.. Your basically drafting him on physical talent and hope..

Josh Allen had 1800 passing yards in his final college season before going #7 overall.

[Catsfan69]

6 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

And Peyton Manning is the only one that actually won a SB in the modern era, unless my memory is failing me.

Define Modern era please?

[kungfoodude]

19 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Potential is why those guys got drafted, though. Whether or not a player makes it is a whole other thing - obviously everyone is trying to avoid drafting Ryan Leaf.  But as far as we know there aren't major warning signs about AR...

My point being that potential is a dangerous drug. It's easy to OD on, especially when mixed with hopium or copium.

You need to find the right balance of ceiling and floor. In Richardson's case, his ceiling is the highest. However his floor is so low it's almost an abyss. Probably the lowest floor in this entire QB class because, frankly, he is subpar at most aspects of playing the QB position. Not at an NFL level, but at a college level. 

That should give most people pause. Now, I haven't done a deep dive into FL to determine if there are some scheme issues or he just hasn't been developed properly. I will leave that up to the professionals. What I can say is that of the games I have watched over the past two seasons, he was quite bad at reading the field and being accurate on throws. That's ultimately gonna be a problem, especially if we don't have the people to develop him properly.

[mav1234]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

My point being that potential is a dangerous drug. It's easy to OD on, especially when mixed with hopium or copium.

You need to find the right balance of ceiling and floor. In Richardson's case, his ceiling is the highest. However his floor is so low it's almost an abyss. Probably the lowest floor in this entire QB class because, frankly, he is subpar at most aspects of playing the QB position. Not at an NFL level, but at a college level. 

That should give most people pause. Now, I haven't done a deep dive into FL to determine if there are some scheme issues or he just hasn't been developed properly. I will leave that up to the professionals. What I can say is that of the games I have watched over the past two seasons, he was quite bad at reading the field and being accurate on throws. That's ultimately gonna be a problem, especially if we don't have the people to develop him properly.

Being realistic, though, if a prospect doesn't have reason to give you pause he's going #1 overall when he has a ceiling like AR. Hell, both QBs unquestionably above him have very large question marks, too.  Not like ARs, though.

He's not the best QB prospect in the class or even the 2nd best, but he might be the third, which could land him anywhere in the first... Which is reasonable given his position and ceiling, assuming he does well in interviews etc.

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, Rags said:

Yeah that's honestly the thing. That's going to be the hangup.

Either you like the prospect and what he could bring because his film is limited and I'm sure for as many wow moments as he's produced, he's probably got just as many infurating ones on Film.

It's probably gonna end up a more extreme Josh Allen situation. Personally I'm more interested in K.J. Jefferson but I can't deny the intrigue of Richardson.

At least Jefferson showed some improvements over time. Richardson did not. 

I am not anti-Richardson. I am anti-Richardson in the first round. You give me Richardson with our 2nd round pick, you won't hear a single complaint from me. Quality gamble.

Edited December 6, 2022 by kungfoodude

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, mav1234 said:

Being realistic, though, if a prospect doesn't have reason to give you pause he's going #1 overall when he has a ceiling like AR. Hell, both QBs unquestionably above him have very large question marks, too.  Not like ARs, though.

He's not the best QB prospect in the class or even the 2nd best, but he might be the third, which could land him anywhere in the first... Which is reasonable given his position and ceiling, assuming he does well in interviews etc.

I am not here arguing he might not go in the 1st round, either. It's very possible.

I just don't want to be the team spending a top 10 pick on the guy. Or really a 1st, if I am honest.

I am curious to see this play out. I want to see if he proves to be the media creation that Willis was. And, IMO, Willis was a more polished passer.

[Rags]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's rather sad that you cannot read your own posts or follow your own arguments.

- You compare Richardson's talent running the ball to Cam.

- I reply that he is more Taysom Hill than Cam.

- Then you say that is an insult to Richardson's arm strength.

- I literally give you stats that I am 100% certain you literally never looked at.

- Then you cry that stats don’t matter.

- I point out that the on field play makes my point even more pertinent.

- Then you shriek that you never compared Richardson to Cam......literally despite this entire thing being over you comparing him to Cam.

 

So, maybe you are too stupid to follow your own logic train or maybe you are trying to crawfish your way out of making an outlandish comment.

So let's say Cam is an S tier runner yeah? And Justin Fields is an A tier runner.

Saying "Cam Tier honestly" means they are in the same tier of runners. I have never once called them the same player. It just means their running has the same effect on the field when going against opposing defenses, and their ability to out athlete whoever their matched up against while running constantly shines through. I did not say he was Cam, I said "Cam tier".  A point you only just now finally concede by saying I compared his running ability to Cam.

When I replied to your post -- something sensational and provocative -- it wasn't with the thought of Cam in mind, it was how stupid it was to compare him to Tasom Hill on a post about that players Physical Ability.  Keep that in mind, remember, my original post was about Anthony Richardson's physical ability, not his production. 

Then you reply with...Stats? What the fug do stats have to do with this? That post wasn't about his stats and you're right i didn't read the stats -- they didn't help your argument at all. No one gives or gave a fug about Taysom Hill coming out of college besides Sean Peyton. People care and are studying Anthony Richardson. Obviously Richardson's stats don't matter to much, otherwise Malik Willis woulda been a first rounder. 

My point after that was just that -- that I never said Richardson was Cam like you kept implying.

"I assumed you were since watching them play it's EXTREMELY obvious he isn't anywhere near Cam Newton."

So assuming you couldn't have meant "Because he didn't put up as many rushing yards as Cam he can't be as good of a runner as Cam is" because that'd be really dumb, I'm thinking you meant "By mentioning Cam in this post he's saying he's Cam Newton." which wasn't my point or what I said.

Lamar is a Cam tier runner. Vick was a Cam tier runner. All 4 players in that tier have different strengths and running styles that worked well and was/is a nightmart to defend against. Saying a player is a really good runner is not saying he's Cam.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Rags said:

So let's say Cam is an S tier runner yeah? And Justin Fields is an A tier runner.

Saying "Cam Tier honestly" means they are in the same tier of runners. I have never once called them the same player. It just means their running has the same effect on the field when going against opposing defenses, and their ability to out athlete whoever their matched up against while running constantly shines through. I did not say he was Cam, I said "Cam tier".  A point you only just now finally concede by saying I compared his running ability to Cam.

When I replied to your post -- something sensational and provocative -- it wasn't with the thought of Cam in mind, it was how stupid it was to compare him to Tasom Hill on a post about that players Physical Ability.  Keep that in mind, remember, my original post was about Anthony Richardson's physical ability, not his production. 

Then you reply with...Stats? What the fug do stats have to do with this? That post wasn't about his stats and you're right i didn't read the stats -- they didn't help your argument at all. No one gives or gave a fug about Taysom Hill coming out of college besides Sean Peyton. People care and are studying Anthony Richardson. Obviously Richardson's stats don't matter to much, otherwise Malik Willis woulda been a first rounder. 

My point after that was just that -- that I never said Richardson was Cam like you kept implying.

"I assumed you were since watching them play it's EXTREMELY obvious he isn't anywhere near Cam Newton."

So assuming you couldn't have meant "Because he didn't put up as many rushing yards as Cam he can't be as good of a runner as Cam is" because that'd be really dumb, I'm thinking you meant "By mentioning Cam in this post he's saying he's Cam Newton." which wasn't my point or what I said.

Lamar is a Cam tier runner. Vick was a Cam tier runner. All 4 players in that tier have different strengths and running styles that worked well and was/is a nightmart to defend against. Saying a player is a really good runner is not saying he's Cam.

So you basically just had an entire argument in your own head that didn't have any relation to the actual argument you typed into words on a publicly viewable message board.

Got it. 

[Wundrbread33]

36 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Seems like most of our fanbase is there. Nothing short of the Andrew Luck type prospect is going to satisfy them. Everything else is a bad QB class  But the reality the Andrew Lucks come around about once a decade and the last one (Trevor Lawrence) isn't exactly setting the world on fire so far.

 

 

Ain’t gonna lie I am guilty of this (but because of Cam).

It’s very difficult to evaluate these guys when they all look like little bitches next to Mr. 6’5” 250 .

[mav1234]

9 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not here arguing he might not go in the 1st round, either. It's very possible.

I just don't want to be the team spending a top 10 pick on the guy. Or really a 1st, if I am honest.

I am curious to see this play out. I want to see if he proves to be the media creation that Willis was. And, IMO, Willis was a more polished passer.

That's a fine perspective. I'm also okay with us not drafting a QB in the first. But, AR does have a lot of potential and the right coach can likely unlock it.

As to Willis, he was a more polished passer but a weaker prospect overall. AR compares crazy well to Josh Allen and I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the same area.  If he doesn't, I suspect it'll have to do with how he does in interviews and the like. 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Ain’t gonna lie I am guilty of this (but because of Cam).

It’s very difficult to evaluate these guys when they all look like little bitches next to Mr. 6’5” 250 .

Oh trust me, I get it. I just look at all the best young QBs in the league currently and they all had significant question marks and only Burrow was the #1 overall pick. Burrow was a one year wonder playing with elite receivers. Herbert came from a one read offense that didn't translate to the NFL. Allen couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Mahomes came from a gimmicky system that grossly inflates passing stats.

I think a lot of times teams get caught in the trap of drafting the guy they think will be the best rookie instead of the guy who they think can ultimately develop into the best QB. There's no way guys like Kenny Pickett and Mac Jones should've ever sniffed the first round, but they were viewed as the most "NFL ready". That's all well and good to be "NFL ready" but it doesn't matter if you don't have NFL tools.