Peter King on the trade

[Stingray3030]

Richardson @ 9 I could live with although I believe it is a mistake.....trading all this for Richardson @ #1 is a ridiculous move.  Even if he ends up being great you could have him well below there....it has nothing to do with his value and everything to do with his "perceived value". 

If they did this and take Richardson I have lost tremendous confidence in this staff.

[TLGPanthersFan]

I am less concerned about the QB now then I am about the WR and TE position. 
Wouldn’t be surprised if we go all offense in the draft. 2nd pick definitely needs to be a WR, in a very weak class, or TE. 
Honestly the more I think about it the more I wish Chicago would have just taken 3 firsts instead of Moore. 
Gonna be a really rough year for the rook if we can’t get him some weapons. 

[MHS831]

I prefer Stroud, but I also hate the idea of passing on Young and his intellect.  Can we go wrong with either?  I think it is like asking would you like a Jaguar or a Porche.  (To put this into terms that Huddlers can understand, it is like choosing between a 74 AMC Gremlin and a 75 Chevy Vega---too tough to call)

[RenoCarolina]

I think the pundits are overthinking and King is closest to the mark. With Young holding out on the combine they saw enough from Stroud to go up to #1 and get their guy. “Their Guy”  could change after pro day workouts but it was Stroud’s combine that launched this move. 

Yes Tepper chased Watson but was out when ante was upped to fully guaranteed.  That meant Lamar was never a serious consideration. Tepper and our FO have been wrong before but the knew another reclamation project like Carr or Jimmy G was not going to fly with the fan base or get us out of mediocrity.

Whether it is Young or Stroud or a trade back or Levis/Richardson (btw, I don’t buy moving to qb3 or 4 with DJ in the package)  Tepper has Panther fans excited for the first time since the NFL scripted the bronco SB “win” and deserves a hell of a lot of credit for both this gutsy trade and this new staff. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

An extensive look at the trade and its fallout from Peter King and his latest FMIA column...

FMIA: Trade Notes

The top of the draft got turned upside-down by Ryan Poles and the desperado Carolina Panthers just after 5 Eastern Time Friday afternoon, six days after he told me it’d take a ransom for the Bears to deal the top overall pick.

Poles got a lot from Carolina for the top pick: the ninth and 61st overall picks this year, a first-round pick in 2024, a second-round pick in 2025, and the Panthers’ number one wideout, D.J. Moore, healthy and entering his age-26 season. Moore’s not a top-10 NFL receiver, but he’s certainly in the top 20, after three 1,000-yard years in his first five NFL seasons.

Because the trade cannot be announced until Wednesday, the start of the 2023 league year, the Panthers and Bears were zipped up tight over the weekend. But I’ve gathered a few nuggets.

...

The prevailing wisdom: Chicago got enough for the pick, assuming D.J. Moore can be the primo receiver Justin Fields desperately needs. Carolina paid through the nose, and recent draft history is littered with lousy tradeups into the top five for quarterbacks who didn’t pan out (Robert Griffin III, Carson Wentz, Mitchell Trubisky, Sam Darnold). “If Carolina doesn’t pick the right quarterback, the trade’s a disaster,” said former NFL wheeler-dealer Jimmy Johnson.

Thoughts:

This deal was not getting done without D.J. Moore in it. The Bears had a bottom-five group of wideouts in 2022, even after trading for Chase Claypool in midseason. Darnell Mooney, Claypool and Equanimeous St. Brown, as a group, weren’t going to give Fields his best chance to emerge as a quarterback and developing Fields is priority one for the ’23 Bears. The free-agency wideout crop is a D-minus, and unless Poles wanted to use his only pick in the top-50 on a receiver, Moore (or a number one receiver like him) was vital. Certainly Carolina didn’t want to deal one of its best five players, in his prime; in the span of six months, the Panthers have dealt their two best offensive players, Christian McCaffrey and Moore. But if they wanted to be sure of having their choice of quarterbacks come April 27, Moore had to be sacrificed.

...

I don’t think Carolina has decided which quarterback it wants. Of course the GM, Scott Fitterer, and scouts who’ve investigated quarterbacks have their leanings. Of course coach Frank Reich and his staff have their opinions after watching tape and meeting the passers at the Combine. But 45 days out from the first round, this isn’t a done deal. It wouldn’t be smart for it to be a done deal.

I’ve heard the same rumors everyone else has—that Frank Reich loves Florida QB Anthony Richardson. And he may be the pick. But I’m a bit skeptical. Nothing against Richardson, who is one of the most interesting QB prospects in the past few drafts. I wonder, though, about trading two first-round picks, two second-round picks and one of your five best players for a player with a high ceiling but with one year as a college starter. Trading to number one and choosing Richardson might turn out to be brilliant. But picking Richardson number one after dealing five prime pieces for him is a major risk.

However, if Richardson become The Guy, I expect Carolina to consider a minor trade-down. This would be tricky. When teams make draft trades, the team trading up doesn’t usually admit who the player target is. In this case, the Panthers, if trading from one to, say, Houston at two, would have to be assured the Texans weren’t taking the quarterback Carolina wants. That would require some trust, obviously. Going much beyond two would be a chancy venture.

...

Reich has never coached a short quarterback, and Bryce Young is 5-10. Is that meaningful? I give it a little weight. In Reich’s 17 years as a quarterbacks coach, offensive coordinator or head coach, his starting quarterbacks in Indianapolis, Arizona, San Diego, Philadelphia and Indianapolis (again) have been 6-6 (Nick Foles, John Skelton), 6-5 (Peyton Manning, Kerry Collins, Dan Orlovsky, Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz, Rivers again, Wentz again), 6-4 (Curtis Painter, Andrew Luck, Jacoby Brissett, Matt Ryan), 6-3 (Ryan Lindley) and 6-2 (Sam Ehlinger). The 6-3 and 6-2 guys totaled six starts, and I suspect that starting Ehlinger twice in Reich’s last two games in Indy was not Reich’s idea. So in 17 years, all but six games Reich coached were started by quarterbacks 6-4 and taller. Reich’s a traditionalist. He played in an era with big quarterbacks. To stake the future of the franchise on a great player, but a 5-10 player, would be unconventional for him. However, Fitterer comes from Seattle, where the 5-10-ish Russell Wilson was a major outlier for a decade. Young has gotten rave reviews for his football smarts, and just finished two years with a demanding NFL QB teacher, Bill O’Brien, at Alabama. So never say never about the short QB.

...

One other thing about Bryce Young that Reich and his staff will love and could sway them toward a 5-10 QB. There probably wasn’t a quarterback in college football last year who was as smart and resourceful as Young. Case in point: On most snaps at Alabama, Young called two plays in the huddle and decided which to use—himself, not with a signal from the sidelines—once he read the defense at the line. “That’s very NFL,” said one league quarterback authority who has studied Young. “I think that’s one of the reasons his height isn’t as big a deal as it might be—he’s dealt with figuring out the right play all the time based on what he sees from the defense, and I’m sure he factors in not getting in traffic with a bunch of 6-5 guys.” Two other points to consider about Young: He didn’t have many balls batted down. And Reich is not an inflexible person—if he thinks Young’s markedly the best prospect, he’ll be good taking him.

Does Young’s size mean 6-3 C.J. Stroud has the best chance to be the pick? Two veteran front-office people I spoke with Saturday think Stroud makes the most sense, but those two men are not making this call. Stroud did play the single-most impressive game of any of the four first-round prospects (including Kentucky’s Will Levis) this year—putting up 41 points on Georgia in the college playoffs, throwing for 348 yards with four TDs and no interceptions—so that counts for something.

...

Re Carolina: Anyone who scouts the quarterbacks comes away thinking Young and Stroud are good candidates for the top pick. The game has changed in the past few years. If you love Young the most, you’re going to deploy an offense that’s 97-percent in shotgun and let him be the smart guy at the line he was at Alabama. Stroud showed the ability to drive the football with confidence; clearly, he’ll be able to make every NFL throw, and he’s afraid of nothing. But then there’s Richardson. It’s certainly possible in the next six weeks the Panthers could talk themselves into the versatile Florida quarterback with the great arm and 80- and 81-yard college TD runs.

I wish I could tell you a good gut feel on who Carolina will pick, but I can’t. As I say, I’m sure those who will collaborate to make the pick have leanings today. Leanings can change in 45 days.

When I said a couple of days ago that the Panthers wanted to give up 3 firsts but the Bears wanted DJ, you said it was BS. Me thinks you may have spoken too soon. 

[Captroop]

I have a suspicion that we're not done trading yet. Fitterer is a savvy wheeler and dealer, and it could be that trading up to 1 was a move to have our pick of trade-back partners.

It's possible that if we figured at 9, we wouldn't get any of the top 4 QBs. But trading up from 9 to where we could get ourselves a shot at them would cost multiple firsts.

But now, sitting at 1, if we trade back to 4, say, Indy gets their QB of the future, we get our pick of Levis or Richardson, and we probably take a future first in the deal, and we're effectively getting the QB we wanted for just DJ Moore.

[MHS831]

11 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

I am less concerned about the QB now then I am about the WR and TE position. 

I think you are right.  We know we are getting a good QB in Young or Stroud.  I do not see Richardson or Levis at #1.  We should focus on supporting the mystery QB now.

Wouldn’t be surprised if we go all offense in the draft.

I think free agency will /could involve a WR.  I also think we need to address a few 3-4 front seven members.  Aside from that, I see all Defense in free agency--Edge, TE, and C (somewhat) are deep in the draft, so expect us to grab one or two from that category.

Honestly the more I think about it the more I wish Chicago would have just taken 3 firsts instead of Moore. 

They would not have accepted that deal, imo.  Fields is in year three--his make or break year.  They needed the player now, not in 2025.  The more I think about it, the more I think we now have to take a WR at 39, so watch TE in free agency.
 

Interesting comments.  Made me think.  See bold under your statements for my views on each.

[Stingray3030]

17 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

I am less concerned about the QB now then I am about the WR and TE position. 
Wouldn’t be surprised if we go all offense in the draft. 2nd pick definitely needs to be a WR, in a very weak class, or TE. 
Honestly the more I think about it the more I wish Chicago would have just taken 3 firsts instead of Moore. 
Gonna be a really rough year for the rook if we can’t get him some weapons. 

I am with you on with you on everything except that this is a very weak WR class - Johnston, Addison, Smith-Njigba, Flowers, Downs, Dell are all very good and should be gone by pick 50.  If we get any of the first 5 I mentioned they are solid potential #1's.

[Ivory Panther]

3 minutes ago, RenoCarolina said:

I think the pundits are overthinking and King is closest to the mark. With Young holding out on the combine they saw enough from Stroud to go up to #1 and get their guy. “Their Guy”  could change after pro day workouts but it was Stroud’s combine that launched this move. 

Yes Tepper chased Watson but was out when ante was upped to fully guaranteed.  That meant Lamar was never a serious consideration. Tepper and our FO have been wrong before but the knew another reclamation project like Carr or Jimmy G was not going to fly with the fan base or get us out of mediocrity.

Whether it is Young or Stroud or a trade back or Levis/Richardson (btw, I don’t buy moving to qb3 or 4 with DJ in the package)  Tepper has Panther fans excited for the first time since the NFL scripted the bronco SB “win” and deserves a hell of a lot of credit for both this gutsy trade and this new staff. 

I don’t believe they made the move because of what they saw from CJ. at the combine.

Reports are that CHI wanted the deal done b4 free agency so they knew what they needed to focus spending on in free agency. & now that they took DJ, it makes sense. CHI now spend money at other position.

I believe when it’s all said & done, Bryce is too smart for coaches not to want him. They will pick him. 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

When I said a couple of days ago that the Panthers wanted to give up 3 firsts but the Bears wanted DJ, you said it was BS. Me thinks you may have spoken too soon. 

Do I sense a "call out?"  DAAAAAAAMMMN. 

[TLGPanthersFan]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Interesting comments.  Made me think.  See bold under your statements for my views on each.

Pretty much agreed with everything you wrote. 

Yeah I know we HAD to give Moore up for the trade to work, it seems like a WR being in the mix was one of the sticking points for the Bears trading the pick regardless. 
It has come out the Raiders wanted to move up but had no young WR to offer up as trade. 

[RenoCarolina]

6 minutes ago, Ivory Panther said:

I don’t believe they made the move because of what they saw from CJ. at the combine.

Reports are that CHI wanted the deal done b4 free agency so they knew what they needed to focus spending on in free agency. & now that they took DJ, it makes sense. CHI now spend money at other position.

I believe when it’s all said & done, Bryce is too smart for coaches not to want him. They will pick him. 

I mean, you could be right.  I'd be happy with Young because that meant he killed his Pro Day. 

But the addition of DJ to the deal is what has me thinking that Stroud is either the pick or the "insurance" pick if Young blows his Pro Day.  I don't see any way we give up DJ without a thorough evaluation of Young and I don't mean confirming his height/weight.

And the reports about CHI wanting the deal done b4 FA goes both ways.  We get more flexibility now as well.  DJ was the biggest cap hit on the team and the loss of his on field #'s is going to hurt.  But he was never a locker room leader and his numbers last season can be replicated with better qb play.  

Don't get me wrong, I had a #2 Jersey and I'm going to miss him and follow his career from now on.  But that jersey and my Cam, Steve Smith and 22 jersey are why I am never buying a Brian Burns jersey.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by RenoCarolina

[PanthersATL]

I'm surprised King even knows how to spell "Panthers". 

He certainly hasn't spent a lot of time writing about us over the years.

[Ivory Panther]

1 minute ago, RenoCarolina said:

I mean, you could be right.  I'd be happy with Young because that meant he killed his Pro Day. 

But the addition of DJ to the deal is what has me thinking that Stroud is either the pick or the "insurance" pick if Young blows his Pro Day.  I don't see any way we give up DJ without a thorough evaluation of Young and I don't mean confirming his height/weight.

 

I hear u. I believe the value of combine & pro day for QBs is getting to talk & interact with the prospect. Other than that the throwing portion is pretty meaningless…most QBs can make most throws without pressure in their face & wide open WR.

i doubt there is anything at the workout that will drastically change their views at Young pro day. But I could be wrong.