Houston Texans... You Suck!!!

[tukafan21]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This is why they'll lose. The draft pick value is substantial vs. minimal cap impact.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand it has literally NOTHING to do with the cap hit of these 2nd rounders, like not even 1% of the issue here.

If anything, it's "draft pick value vs future cap implications of being forced to give fully guaranteed deals to FA signings" and if that's the case, then the Agents will lose every single one of these battles, because teams aren't going to go down that path, as those are massive cap impact implications.

There is a reason the #2 pick of the 2nd Round got his fully guaranteed deal and after that, the only other player to sign was the #1 pick of the round, who also then got a fully guaranteed deal.

And spoiler alert, it's not because they're afraid of the minimal cap hit of these players, and they won't be swayed to give them the deals because of the draft pick value.  

If half the teams had signed their 2nd Rounders by now and they all gave the fully guaranteed deals, then I'd say you have more of an argument.  But the proof is in the pudding, the teams don't want to give these 2nd rounders the guaranteed deals and I don't think the agents will win in the end, the players have more to risk than the teams in this instance.

That the Browns haven't even signed their other 2nd rounder, who was only 3 picks later, is kinda telling to me.  It says they knew they were going to be forced to give their first pick the fully guaranteed contract because of Higgins and then are drawing the line in the sand after that, nothing else would make sense for that deal to not be done yet unless that's the case.

Edited 8 hours ago by tukafan21

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, tukafan21 said:

Why is it so difficult for you to understand it has literally NOTHING to do with the cap hit of these 2nd rounders, like not even 1% of the issue here.

If anything, it's "draft pick value vs future cap implications of being forced to give fully guaranteed deals to FA signings" and if that's the case, then the Agents will lose every single one of these battles, because teams aren't going to go down that path, as those are massive cap impact implications.

There is a reason the #2 pick of the 2nd Round got his fully guaranteed deal and after that, the only other player to sign was the #1 pick of the round, who also then got a fully guaranteed deal.

And spoiler alert, it's not because they're afraid of the minimal cap hit of these players, and they won't be swayed to give them the deals because of the draft pick value.  

If half the teams had signed their 2nd Rounders by now and they all gave the fully guaranteed deals, then I'd say you have more of an argument.  But the proof is in the pudding, the teams don't want to give these 2nd rounders the guaranteed deals and I don't think the agents will win in the end, the players have more to risk than the teams in this instance.

That the Browns haven't even signed their other 2nd rounder, who was only 3 picks later, is kinda telling to me.  It says they knew they were going to be forced to give their first pick the fully guaranteed contract because of Higgins and then are drawing the line in the sand after that, nothing else would make sense for that deal to not be done yet unless that's the case.

You're not even reading what I'm saying you're just ranting. It has everything to do with draft pick value vs. cap space impact. The agent knows he's holding significant draft capital over the GM's head vs. minimal cap impact. Not everyone is geared like Dave Gettleman where literally everything boils down to a dick measuring contest. History indicates the agents progressively whittle away and win the battle vs. the GMs on the rookie contracts. Hell, we have an owner throwing out typical 6th rounder guarantees at UDFAs just to secure them. He's not sweating pennies on the dollar against the cap or trying to protect his precious wallet. It's the one thing I do appreciate about Tepper. The man will spend to try to win. Being cheap hasn't been our issue.

[tukafan21]

22 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're not even reading what I'm saying you're just ranting. It has everything to do with draft pick value vs. cap space impact. The agent knows he's holding significant draft capital over the GM's head vs. minimal cap impact. Not everyone is geared like Dave Gettleman where literally everything boils down to a dick measuring contest. History indicates the agents progressively whittle away and win the battle vs. the GMs on the rookie contracts. Hell, we have an owner throwing out typical 6th rounder guarantees at UDFAs just to secure them. He's not sweating pennies on the dollar against the cap or trying to protect his precious wallet. It's the one thing I do appreciate about Tepper. The man will spend to try to win. Being cheap hasn't been our issue.

No, you're just flat out not comprehending what is going on, because if it was really how you think, more than only the first 2 players taken in the round would be signed right now.  Enough teams would just say screw it, it's not worth fighting with the agent over such a relatively low guaranteed cap hit.

Your point about teams being afraid of spending that draft capital and not getting the player signed is also just asinine on the surface.  Because yes, the teams want to make sure the draft capital they used is on the field for them, but 2nd rounders fail more than they succeed in general.  

If one holds out to try and re-enter the draft after a year off of football, they're tanking their career before it ever gets started and will fall further in that draft too.  Teams expect their 1st rounders to pan out, but they just hope their 2nd rounders do, it's why the pressure is on the team to sign a 1st rounder, but it's why the players have so much more to lose by holding out than the teams do for anyone after the 1st round.

It's 100% about precedent, that's literally the only thing driving this right now, on both sides.  Again, if half the teams had signed them, or even a third of them, you might have a leg to stand on.

But it's clear this has nothing to do with agent/team leverage at this point, it's about both sides trying to set a new precedent for contracts, and I don't see the agents winning this one on the whole.  Maybe a few more end up getting it, but I'd bet at least 20 of the 2nd round picks do NOT get a fully guaranteed contract.

Edited 6 hours ago by tukafan21

[LinvilleGorge]

We'll see what happens. I bet most of the 2nd rounders will get big guarantees and that percentage will continue to go up year after year and then it'll be the 3rd rounders up next.

[jfra78]

Was a non issue a month ago and still is.  

[tukafan21]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We'll see what happens. I bet most of the 2nd rounders will get big guarantees and that percentage will continue to go up year after year and then it'll be the 3rd rounders up next.

No, next it will be Free Agents, which is why I think the teams are going to hold the line.  

If they give out fully guarantees to a ton of this year's 2nd rounders, those same agents are going to start demanding it for the top FA's next offseason before the draft ever happens, something that they've never done before except Watson and everyone said it was dumb and they were right.