Bryce stats past the sticks

[tukafan21]

4 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I think the gameplan is all about winning right now which im not gonna knock Canales for. I do think coming into the season it was to let bryce air out so he can develop but he clearly had to change something up to avoid being forced to yank bryce off the field again. 

I'll knock him for that, as his job isn't to only win games this year, it's also to improve his players.  As winning at the expense of improving the players is a short term gain for long term pain.

And again, this isn't me bashing the coaches like I've done in the past, just a tad disappointed that we let yet another opportunity for Bryce to work on the thing he struggles with pass by without taking advantage of it.  He's never going to get better at passing downfield if we don't let him do it more, especially when we're playing the worst pass defense in the league.

Just remember this game the next time we lose a game because we dinked and dunked the ball in the passing game and it never gave us a chance to be competitive because of it.  Those aren't the games to work on those things, these are those games, just a missed opportunity in what was a good win, could have killed two birds with one stone but didn't take our shot.

Edited 5 hours ago by tukafan21

[CRA]

28 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

He can be our post injury Delhomme in 2008. I am fine with Hubbard and Dowdle being our Willliams and Stewart. 
 

Canales has some eating to do and hair to grow if he’s going to be Jeff Davidson tho.

Jake Delhomme's career ended that season.  I mean, it technically didn't.  But it ended after the combo of the AZ closer/Philly opener.  That's where the end can be found.  Hard to play in the NFL without an arm downfield. 

[BIGH2001]

48 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

For me, it's less about the % of downfield passes, it's about that percentage of them in a game against such a bad pass defense.

I've said it too many times to count, this season was never meant to be about winning games as the main priority, it was always about the growth of Bryce and if he can be the QB of the future (and same for Canales' future, but to a slightly lesser extent).  Set aside whether you think he's already proven he can't be, as that's a different discussion that no matter what fans think, while the season is being played, the team is never going to think he can't be while continuing to play him.  

So, if you operate under the assumption that the team still thinks he has a chance to be our QB of the future, that is when I then take issue with the percentage of 10+ yard throws in a game against the worst pass defense.

I know we won the games and actually looked like a competent NFL team in the process, so don't take me saying this as "being upset" about the game.  But yes, I am still disappointed that we didn't use a game against a defense like that to try and further Bryce's development by taking more downfield chances.  Which doesn't mean 50 yard bombs, but throwing more 15-25 yard passes downfield would have been nice to see against such a weak defense.

We ran the ball for 8 yards a carry yesterday. Why should we spend the whole game airing it out to a bunch of nobodies and a rookie?

[ProcessBlue2]

Just now, CRA said:

Jake Delhomme's career ended that season.  I mean, it technically didn't.  But it ended after the combo of the AZ closer/Philly opener.  That's where the end can be found.  Hard to play in the NFL without an arm downfield. 

I’ll settle for that exact same outcome. If it gets a division title and/or playoff berth in Charlotte. That’s a fair trade off 

[ImfromClayton]

But a bunch of people on this chat page told me Bryce Young can't throw the ball downfield. 

[PanthersGTI]

I really think people are stuck in like 2018 or something. NFL defenses are built to stop the deep pass. We've come full circle on the trend. Defenses want to limit big plays now, so running game and quick passes are back in. It will change again in a few years I am sure. If you want proof of this look up some Brandt Tillis interviews, he goes in depth on the trends in the NFL as of like 2023. 

 

BY9 was like #8 on average yards per throw this week ( #1 in TD% BTW ). Not really sure what the issue is.

Edited 4 hours ago by PanthersGTI

[CRA]

1 minute ago, ImfromClayton said:

But a bunch of people on this chat page told me Bryce Young can't throw the ball downfield. 

not true.  For years, we noted that Bryce Young completed passes to Bama WRs when they were Bama open.  There wasn't a defender within 10 yards on 2 of those 3 throws.  No one within 5 on the other.    Props to him for seeing the open man.....but Bryce wasn't suddenly making throws he struggled with.  Dudes just college open downfield.  

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, BIGH2001 said:

We ran the ball for 8 yards a carry yesterday. Why should we spend the whole game airing it out to a bunch of nobodies and a rookie?

Two completely different arguments, the YPC has literally zero bearing on what I'm saying here, it's the umber of pass attempts vs pass attempts 10+ yards downfield that is driving it.

Throw 15-20 passes in a game like that, with the same 8 passes of 10+ yards downfield and I don't say a single thing about it.  It's when you throw 25 passes that it becomes a question to me, which again, has nothing to do with the YPC, because we still threw it 25 times.

Argue we should have only thrown 15 passes when we were running like that and I have no retort, as that is a perfectly valid argument.

[XClown1986]

7 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I'll knock him for that, as his job isn't to only win games this year, it's also to improve his players.  As winning at the expense of improving the players is a short term gain for long term pain.

 

That's quite literally his only job. Every year has new goals, new identities, etc. But the one constant is to win at all costs. He isn't guaranteed to be here next year UNLESS he wins. Why would he give a poo to mold a bunch of players someone else might be coaching? 

[PNW_PantherMan]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

Jake Delhomme's career ended that season.  I mean, it technically didn't.  But it ended after the combo of the AZ closer/Philly opener.  That's where the end can be found.  Hard to play in the NFL without an arm downfield. 

Yeah if that's what we're signing up for here, then I just can't get behind it.  That contract extension that Hurney gave Jake that offseason was BRUTAL.

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, XClown1986 said:

That's quite literally his only job. Every year has new goals, new identities, etc. But the one constant is to win at all costs. He isn't guaranteed to be here next year UNLESS he wins. Why would he give a poo to mold a bunch of players someone else might be coaching? 

No it's not, there isn't a single coach who's only job is to win games, because no coach is going to win games unless they're also improving the quality of play out of their players.

For coaches with contending teams, winning is their #1 job, but I think it's a more than reasonable take to say that coaches of not yet contending teams winning comes second to making your players better.

We have 11 games left, if you gave me the option of winning all 11 of the games in terribly ugly fashion to where we don't improve the quality of our players vs we lose all 11 games, but do so in spectacular fashion where our players show significant improvement, I'm taking option B every time.

Because option B is the path to future and long term success, while option A is a path to short term happiness at the expense of long term franchise stability.  

And yes, that is clearly an extreme example that could never actually play out in either way, but you still know what I mean.  And no, it has nothing to do with draft position, it's about how good will these players be a year, 2 years, 3 years, etc, down the line, when you hope to be a true contending team, because nobody actually thinks we're that type of team this year unless you're literally crazy

[XClown1986]

5 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

No it's not, there isn't a single coach who's only job is to win games, because no coach is going to win games unless they're also improving the quality of play out of their players.

For coaches with contending teams, winning is their #1 job, but I think it's a more than reasonable take to say that coaches of not yet contending teams winning comes second to making your players better.

We have 11 games left, if you gave me the option of winning all 11 of the games in terribly ugly fashion to where we don't improve the quality of our players vs we lose all 11 games, but do so in spectacular fashion where our players show significant improvement, I'm taking option B every time.

Because option B is the path to future and long term success, while option A is a path to short term happiness at the expense of long term franchise stability.  

And yes, that is clearly an extreme example that could never actually play out in either way, but you still know what I mean.  And no, it has nothing to do with draft position, it's about how good will these players be a year, 2 years, 3 years, etc, down the line, when you hope to be a true contending team, because nobody actually thinks we're that type of team this year unless you're literally crazy

No coach was ever fired for "winning ugly." But trying to be flashy or taking unnecessary risks in a game that was close down to the wire? What if this lead to losing the game? Not even because of mistakes or bad passes etc., but because of mismanaging the clock and field position because of the passing plays that were called in order to "develop the deep passing game"? Do you think Tepper would have given Canales a slap on the back and said "Hey, at least we should be better down the road, maybe. Good job, coach."? 

This is a team and fanbase starved for wins. Canales is delivering that. Nobody expects this team to win the Superbowl or even make the playoffs, he simply wants to instill confidence and a winning mentality into a group of men that need it. Once they learn how to win and start believing they can win and they ACTUALLY start winning, we can talk about other details. Winning changes a culture. The Panthers NEED a culture change. It doesn't matter right now how they get there. 

[BIGH2001]

26 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Two completely different arguments, the YPC has literally zero bearing on what I'm saying here, it's the umber of pass attempts vs pass attempts 10+ yards downfield that is driving it.

Throw 15-20 passes in a game like that, with the same 8 passes of 10+ yards downfield and I don't say a single thing about it.  It's when you throw 25 passes that it becomes a question to me, which again, has nothing to do with the YPC, because we still threw it 25 times.

Argue we should have only thrown 15 passes when we were running like that and I have no retort, as that is a perfectly valid argument.

Well they aren’t playing the game to satisfy your curiosity. We made the throws that were needed to win.

[mav1234]

43 minutes ago, cranky said:

If you look at every QBs chart on the NextGen stats page, you will see Young pretty much threw more passes past the 10 yard line than any of the other QB's this week and he completed a higher percentage of them this week as well. The same goes for last week. He doesn't have the most both weeks but he is in the top 5 both weeks.

I don't know why everyone keeps griping about this subject. The charts show it simply isn't true.

My concern is that if we move the goal posts from 10 to 15 yards he has generally looked much worse this year than last in aggregate. Prior to the last 2 weeks I think he only has 1 or 2 completions over 20 yards, and it wasn't much better 15+ yards. That said, the last 2 weeks are looking more like how he did the end of last year. If he can keep hitting enough passes 15-20 yards down field, it'll keep teams from stacking up too much vs our run game.

To your point, the last 2 weeks he's something like 6/8 past 20 yards, with 2 TDs and an INT.  The first month or so of the season I was saying I wanted to see him hitting more of those throws and I'm glad he's doing so.  It's necessary if you're trying to pound the rock.

I'm still skeptical he'll be able to do that against better teams but hoping he proves me wrong.