First 4 NFL starts - Tyler Shough

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Yes in fact in this thread on page 3, someone said some of us won't be happy unless we have Mahomes or Cam... My point by bringing up stats is actually that most of us DON'T care about having a QB that is throwing tons of yards, we care about having a QB that can move the ball, but Bryce is unable to do anything consistently. 

I'm glad you agree we should move on from Bryce - I also don't care about stats specifically but I think they give context to just how inconsistent he's been, which imo does matter.

Went back and looked at page 3. Pretty sure I found the post you were citing. 

My opinion: I think that post was trying to use hyperbole to make a couple of different points...

One, yes there have been people grumbling over Bryce's stats in games we won. And in doing so ignoring that a lot of our early games relied on a very run heavy game plan. Honestly, not hard to find examples of that if you look back to the posts made around some of those arly victories.

The Saints game forced us to go back to a more balanced attack, and we have indeed won games that way, including Young's career best game against Atlanta when that game unexpectedly became a shootout.

Two, the size factor. Win or lose, good game or bad game, some folks are never gonna be happy with Bryce because of his stature.

It's not so much that anyone expects Bryce to 'be Cam", but if you peruse this board during draft season you'll find loads of threads about prospects that "remind me of Cam" or "could be another Cam" or "might be Cam lite" or at the very least insisting that we'ill never win a Super Bowl unless we get a dual threat quarterback (a false, but somewhat widely held belief).

That was a lot of the draw around Justin Fields, CJ Stroud (who I wanted, but not for that reason), Anthony Richardson and others. If you look back at threads touting those guys, it usually only takes only a few posts for someone to invoke Newton, even if the quarterback in question doesn't really resemble him much at all (Fields was a prime example).

There are people who want Cam back (in spirit if not in body). if that's your ideal, having a guy like Bryce is anathema. But Cam isn't coming back, and as mentioned in the referenced post, guys like Cam don't grow on trees. So basically it's kinda futile to insist on that being the only path to glory.

The overriding point in all this is unrealistic expectations. And yeah, we got 'em. We actually have something else that might be even worse though.

Fear.

Subtle feat, rationalized fear, but at heart still plain old fear. 

Why do I say that?

Because the ridiculously illogical narrative that we somehow "win in spite of Bryce" is a fear based defense mechanism. Bryce can't ever be allowed to do anything good or receive any sort of credit for the Panthers winning games because to do so opens the door to the possibility that Bryce could end up being retained...

...and we simply can't have that

Silly? Sure is, but I think we've all seen cases where people could rationalize just about anything if they're motivated enough. 

I'm not gonna go that route.

I acknowledge every Bryce's skills, his progress, his growth, his "clutch gene" and any number of other good qualities he's demonstrated. 

And I still don't want to have to depend on him long term.

And no, that isn't a contradiction. I have reasons. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Mr. Scot

[mav1234]

You sure give a lot of room to certain posters hyperbole and not others, lol.

You are reading a ton into a post to excuse a poster that posted the exact thing you said you hadn't seen. I don't care what motivates the guy to think "the haters" won't be happy unless we have a superstar when were talking about teams actual cast offs to start next year as options. There's virtually no one suggesting we rank right now (the other assertion in that post).

I don't think it's worth diving in to all of the rest but I will say that virtually none of us are expecting whomever is our QB to be Cam or Mahomes but we'd like them to be consistently good and not consistently hurt the team... And... CJ Stroud compared to Cam?  One of his knocks was that he hardly ever was willing to run.  And he's not built anything like him. 

[hepcat]

On 12/3/2025 at 8:09 PM, DaveThePanther2008 said:

So you're New Orleans.  Do you draft a QB or get him some help. As it stands they are top 5 pick. 

They’re tearing down that roster, so they’ll have a lot of positions that’ll need help 

[Mr. Scot]

7 hours ago, mav1234 said:

You sure give a lot of room to certain posters hyperbole and not others, lol.

You are reading a ton into a post to excuse a poster that posted the exact thing you said you hadn't seen. I don't care what motivates the guy to think "the haters" won't be happy unless we have a superstar when were talking about teams actual cast offs to start next year as options. There's virtually no one suggesting we rank right now (the other assertion in that post).

I don't think it's worth diving in to all of the rest but I will say that virtually none of us are expecting whomever is our QB to be Cam or Mahomes but we'd like them to be consistently good and not consistently hurt the team... And... CJ Stroud compared to Cam?  One of his knocks was that he hardly ever was willing to run.  And he's not built anything like him. 

Nah. I hadn't seen it because that wasn't how I interpreted it.

Don't know that I've seen anyone suggesting we tank (not really a practical suggestion with only four games left) though that element does hang around on an annual basis. Ditto the "hey this guy's good, let's trade him" crowd. They show up every year

As to the Cam comparisons, that was kind of the point. Stroud, Fields, Richardson and others weren't true examples of a Newtonesque archetype, yet a lot of the people arguing they should be the pick invoked Cam's name on the logic that they were.

What I think you're ultimately doing here is somewhat conflating your take with others. No, you're not doing the things talked about, but others are. And those are the ones being referenced in posts like that one. 

As mentioned, my whole thing is arguing not to keep Bryce long term but remaining realistic and substantive in the context of those arguments.

That may be a lot to ask in a sports talk setting these days, but hey...

[MHS831]

The more experience you get in college the better your chances at the next level--(See, Nix, Bo; Richardson, Anthony).

[mav1234]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nah. I hadn't seen it because that wasn't how I interpreted it.

I mean the post quite clearly stated that we expect a QB to be an all time great and expect them to be easily attainable and neither of those things are true of those of us skeptical of Bryce's ability to put it together.  I don't think I'm conflating my opinion with others save the multitude of posters (many of whom are posting in this thread) that are wanting to move on from Bryce. Many of the options thrown out are absolutely not that level.

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I mean the post quite clearly stated that we expect a QB to be an all time great and expect them to be easily attainable and neither of those things are true of those of us skeptical of Bryce's ability to put it together.  I don't think I'm conflating my opinion with others save the multitude of posters (many of whom are posting in this thread) that are wanting to move on from Bryce. Many of the options thrown out are absolutely not that level.

Define "we", kemo sabe

I don't see that post as addressing you, or others with a similar take. As mentioned above, there are indeed people on here with unreasonable / unrealistic expectations. Mind you, that's true on the pro-Bryce side too but it's a smaller crowd.

Edited 19 minutes ago by Mr. Scot

[kungfoodude]

22 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

The more experience you get in college the better your chances at the next level--(See, Nix, Bo; Richardson, Anthony).

Eh....that's not a 100% either way.

Dillon Gabriel was a long tenured college player, so was Quinn Ewers. They also are terrible NFL QB's.

Nix, for example, is probably somewhat a product of being in a very QB friendly system under Pill Payton. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Eh....that's not a 100% either way.

Dillon Gabriel was a long tenured college player, so was Quinn Ewers. They also are terrible NFL QB's.

Nix, for example, is probably somewhat a product of being in a very QB friendly system under Pill Payton. 

Well to be fair, Dillon Gabriel is being asked to succeed in Cleveland

[Navy_football]

32 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

The more experience you get in college the better your chances at the next level--(See, Nix, Bo; Richardson, Anthony).

Well...

I think it improves your chances of being better early on. But where you go has always been the biggest factor. Coaching and good team mates make a huge difference. And that's with any position. 

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Well to be fair, Dillon Gabriel is being asked to succeed in Cleveland

Yeah, which is actually pretty loaded with talent. 

Gabriel is fuging awful. He's the poorest man's version of Chad Pennington imanginable. 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Eh....that's not a 100% either way.

Dillon Gabriel was a long tenured college player, so was Quinn Ewers. They also are terrible NFL QB's.

Nix, for example, is probably somewhat a product of being in a very QB friendly system under Pill Payton. 

The Panther GOAT probably had 14 division 1 starts

The NFL GOAT I think had like 10 starts in college. 

football is just a weird.  But outside of the most extreme outliers....you know after 2-3 years of opportunity if someone is special or not.  If you are debating at the end of year 3 if they are even a middle tier game manager? Well, that puzzle got solved. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

The Panther GOAT probably had 14 division 1 starts

The NFL GOAT I think had like 10 starts in college. 

football is just a weird.  But outside of the most extreme outliers....you know after 2-3 years of opportunity if someone is special or not.  If you are debating at the end of year 3 if they are even a middle tier game manager? Well, that puzzle got solved. 

Brady was a two season starter in college.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tom-brady-1/gamelog/