Someone's not gonna be happy

[kungfoodude]

12 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I watch quite a few games too, so hear you on that. 

Question for you... Do you think Bryce would be better if he took more shots downfield, or do you think he wouldn't be able to pull it off because of limitations?

Yes but I think he is relatively impervious to some level of improving after seeing that Gruden interview about his footwork.

He can be a slightly below average starting QB, IMO. He has those abilities. But he is his own worst enemy. I think in the way Tebl0w was. He is pretty convinced that he has this figured out and he is doing all the right things, when that is clearly not the case.

14 minutes ago, cranky said:

The trick is to not have as many one score games next year. Replacing XL with Coker and TMac having more experience will help with that.

That's not an inordinate amount of one score games, it's in the fairly typical range. Also, we finished at -70. Even the Seahawks leading the NFL at +191 had 10 one score games.

I don't think XL to Coker is going to suddenly turn us elite. We have way more issues than XL. 

Again, it's way too early to say we WILL take a step back but it's far from unlikely either.

[cranky]

5 minutes ago, strato said:

Having a ceiling on what the offense can generate is for sure why we end up only one score ahead in some of these games.  
But I am thinking the QB play needs to be better as a larger factor than the WRs having more experience, to make a leap. 

It works both ways. A QB needs receivers that can get open and then catch the ball when they do. The begining of the season had Tmac and XL as his recevers. Tmac and XL are at 57% and 56% comp rates for the season and Young has a qb rating of 83 and 72 throwing to them. Coker has a comp rate of 73% and a qb rating of 113. Replacing XL with Coker will improve the offense significantly and TMac improve simply with experience. 

[cranky]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes but I think he is relatively impervious to some level of improving after seeing that Gruden interview about his footwork.

He can be a slightly below average starting QB, IMO. He has those abilities. But he is his own worst enemy. I think in the way Tebl0w was. He is pretty convinced that he has this figured out and he is doing all the right things, when that is clearly not the case.

That's not an inordinate amount of one score games, it's in the fairly typical range. Also, we finished at -70. Even the Seahawks leading the NFL at +191 had 10 one score games.

I don't think XL to Coker is going to suddenly turn us elite. We have way more issues than XL. 

Again, it's way too early to say we WILL take a step back but it's far from unlikely either.

It's not about becoming elite, it's about being confident enough to be more aggresive offensively. 

[strato]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

$19 mil AAV would be the sub-franchise QB tier. That would be the 20th largest QB salary.

The QB's in the category feature a LOT of better QB's than Bryce(not including rookie deals).

My impression obviously is we could do better for the money and if that means a one and done vet for 2026 and something else the next year, I am fine with that. 

And I know your mind is made up but some people feel like we need to be able to see what Canales can do with a more conventional guy to scheme and play call for. Because we think the playbook is cut down. If you keep Bruce you keep the leash on the offense too and we won’t get any chance to see. 

We need to know about him too. And doing the Reich thing with one season at a time protects us from Canales drafting a guy and then getting fired and that being a mess. 

Edited 21 hours ago by strato

[jb2288]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Do you want actual or potential options? The CURRENT free agent list is available but that will likely change quite a bit based on what we are seeing happen already.

I'd like to hear, I think this stuff is interesting to see what others think and then compare to my opinion. Electro seems to think it's a psycho analysis false flag operation but most of us are just message board dudes bored at work

[electro's horse]

29 minutes ago, DJ feed me moore said:

go win a superbowl and he can have 250 million idc

Unbound from the shackles of reality this one 

[electro's horse]

6 minutes ago, jb2288 said:

I'd like to hear, I think this stuff is interesting to see what others think and then compare to my opinion. Electro seems to think it's a psycho analysis false flag operation but most of us are just message board dudes bored at work

Not saying it is a CIA op to see just how shitty of a qb they can trick people into supporting. Just saying if it WAS an op i don’t know what would be different. 

[Navy_football]

8 minutes ago, cranky said:

It's not about becoming elite, it's about being confident enough to be more aggresive offensively. 

Honestly. You can see it on the field. Bryce will literally skip a pass on the ground rather than throw a contested catch to XL. Especially when it's one where XL would have to fight back to the ball. Coker is actually really good at that. Coker lacks real NFL speed (not a small thing), but he maxes out in most other categories. 

[kungfoodude]

19 minutes ago, coffee said:

Well, quite frankly, yours is a fine theory as well except that we are no longer getting worse as a team.  Quite the opposite.  And we would've been MUCH better off if we'd spent the resources on a better team than on yet another QB.

If you go back to almost any recent QB and do the math in your head, we'd be a better team with that QB and having spent the resources on the team around him.

 

How would you like to have, say, Baker Mayfield as our QB, CMC as our RB, and Brock Bowers as our TE?  That's the type thing we've given up by listening to everyone say we need to move to yet another QB.

We definitely improved from 2024 to 2025, to me the results were less important than the roster in that regard. It's better. It's still a very bad roster but continuing to be better is the goal.

The changes we are talking about at QB are about spending LESS resources. Not picking up Bryce's 5th is a big potential savings. Significantly better QB's have been had in recent years for half or less than what Bryce will get in 2026. To say nothing of an extension(the ridiculous subject of this thread) which would cripple roster building by saddling it with a bloated QB contract for an awful QB.

The price for Bryce, I mean who is even making that argument anymore? I don't think you are seeing anyone in this thread discussing trading up to #1 for Mendoza. 

We are talking about cheap backup and FA QB's and Day 2 and 3 draft guys. That is literally tied to the idea of roster building. IMPROVE at QB while you build the roster so that we can actually potentially attract a franchise QB or when you make that big move up(SF for Lance) that your roster is so good that the impact is largely negated. 

After all, improving over Bryce is an extremely low bar to hit.

13 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Not to mention DJ Moore at WR, probably Jalen Carter instead of moving up to get BY (he would have fallen right in our laps - Carter and Derrick Brown, damn!), anyone but Mingo since we'd still have DJ. Not sure CMC would be here. That wasn't a move for a QB. But not giving up draft picks for Sam Darnold too. 

You can't get into the habit of switching QBs like that. It could take a decade before you find the guy. And another 5-10 years to rebuild the rest of the team because of what you gave up to get them. Build the team, then get the QB. Sure, take a flyer on a day 2/3 guy in the draft or a FA as a project. But changing QBs, HCs and GMs every year or so is not a recipe for success. 

Let's not assume that standing pat would have resulted in a sudden spurge in good decision making. Don't forget who was making all those roster calls at the time. Bryce or not, we would have fuged it up in some way because we had idiots at the helm. We may still yet.

Also, it's easy to say we can't get in the habit of switching QB's like that but there are also plenty of situations where that flip was the correct decision. Richardson to Jones, Rosen to Murray, Fields to Williams, Lance to Purdy(technically some nuance to this), etc.

There is no real danger of Bryce leaving and suddenly becoming an elite QB. We all do know this, no matter how big of a Bryce stan you may be. His ceiling is middling game manager. So there isn't some crazy risk of moving on.

[Doc LRB]

We have won despite Bryce and sure hate to say that but if you can't get the ball down the field any better than he can.  He has had his moments but they are inconsistant.

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, cranky said:

It works both ways. A QB needs receivers that can get open and then catch the ball when they do. The begining of the season had Tmac and XL as his recevers. Tmac and XL are at 57% and 56% comp rates for the season and Young has a qb rating of 83 and 72 throwing to them. Coker has a comp rate of 73% and a qb rating of 113. Replacing XL with Coker will improve the offense significantly and TMac improve simply with experience. 

You are making a lot of pretty big logical leaps to get where you are. What would you say about starting Jalen Coker, Brycen Tremayne and Jimmy Horn Jr. are you starting 3? And let's say Tremble as your primary receiving TE. Elite?

[frankw]

As has been stated before. There are people who have high standards for every other position but the most important one on the field.

[strato]

33 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

But changing QBs, HCs and GMs every year or so is not a recipe for success. 

Agree totally. We have fuged ourselves post Rivera on continuity. Continuity is a highly regard pillar of sustained success IMO. Lack of it, very detrimental to the same. 

 But a short term QB change to hold the line while you find another guy is not doing that. 

This thing with Bryce, now, is moving into the territory of the ultimatum the long time girlfriends give. 
To me Bryce is the girl sitting around the house in sweats and going to bed with face cream and a hair net.  The one you thought was hot and you move in together and it ain’t what you thought it would be. And now she wants that ring. 
It’s on you if you do it. 
 

Edited 21 hours ago by strato

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, cranky said:

It's not about becoming elite, it's about being confident enough to be more aggresive offensively. 

I don't think we don't call things aggressively, for a Canales offense, anyway. We don't have a QB who makes aggressive throws nor stresses defenses downfield. He is at a career low on 20+ attempts per game and his career 10-20 QB rating is abysmal. 

That will always be a limiting factor IF you are looking for a high flying, downfield offense. I am not even that concerned about it, I just want to see effective offense and we decidedly do not possess that. A large chunk of that is Bryce. I think the second biggest chunk is Canales. All the other components(XL included) are fairly minor in comparison to those two things.

18 minutes ago, strato said:

My impression obviously is we could do better for the money and if that means a one and done vet for 2026 and something else the next year, I am fine with that. 

And I know your mind is made up but some people feel like we need to be able to see what Canales can do with a more conventional guy to scheme and play call for. Because we think the playbook is cut down. If you keep Bruce you keep the leash on the offense too and we won’t get any chance to see. 

We need to know about him too. And doing the Reich thing with one season at a time protects us from Canales drafting a guy and then getting fired and that being a mess. 

I am an advocate of attempting to improve at QB. I am not focused on finding "The QB." We failed at that with Bryce. So let's just get better. If that's a one year vet or a draftee or a cheap trade or some combination of any/all, we should do that. We have to get that QB better. Bryce will fail in 2026 and we need to have REALISTIC options to take over when that happens. That ain't Andy Dalton or Hendon Hooker or Jack Plummer or Mike White or....you get the picture. Be serious about hedging that Bryce bet and not just having to make do if he struggles or gets injured. 

My mind is definitely made up on Canales. It's year two and he hasn't improved much, nor do I think the bones of a good HC are there. Ron Rivera got to that point after two seasons and he was open about the changes he had to make and advice he got to make that leap in year 3. If we don't see the same after next year, how is he not just Brian Daboll?