Evero and the pass rush

[MasterAwesome]

14 minutes ago, frankw said:

Right and I think we can have a conversation about that. But even with the scheme he should still be able to muster more than 1.5 sacks right? I mean DJ Johnson played in Evero's scheme too but that didn't stop us from calling him a bust.

Scourton didn't seem to have trouble flashing.

There can be different things true at one time.

If you account for the discrepancy in snap counts, then Princely and Scourton actually had pretty similar production.

Scourton:

• 717 snaps (68%)
• 47 tackles (7 TFL)
• 5 sacks
• 15 pressures
• 1 FF

Princely:

• 222 snaps (22%) 
• 24 tackles (2 TFL)
• 1.5 sacks
• 5 pressures
• 1 FF, 1 FR

I think Scourton was simply given more opportunities to flash.  Then it goes to a more abstract argument of why Princely was not given more playing time.  But then we'd be blindly giving credence to the same guy who not only drafted DJ Johnson, but was happy to waste a roster spot and snaps on the guy for 2 seasons and some change.

[NAS]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

If you account for the discrepancy in snap counts, then Princely and Scourton actually had pretty similar production.

Scourton:

• 717 snaps (68%)
• 47 tackles (7 TFL)
• 5 sacks
• 15 pressures
• 1 FF

Princely:

• 222 snaps (22%) 
• 24 tackles (2 TFL)
• 1.5 sacks
• 5 pressures
• 1 FF, 1 FR

I think Scourton was simply given more opportunities to flash.  Then it goes to a more abstract argument of why Princely was not given more playing time.  But then we'd be blindly giving credence to the same guy who not only drafted DJ Johnson, but was happy to waste a roster spot and snaps on the guy for 2 seasons and some change.

Princely overall PFF was 47 compared to Scourton’s 68.  
Not everything shows  up in the stats.  

[frankw]

10 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

If you account for the discrepancy in snap counts, then Princely and Scourton actually had pretty similar production.

Scourton:

• 717 snaps (68%)
• 47 tackles (7 TFL)
• 5 sacks
• 15 pressures
• 1 FF

Princely:

• 222 snaps (22%) 
• 24 tackles (2 TFL)
• 1.5 sacks
• 5 pressures
• 1 FF, 1 FR

I think Scourton was simply given more opportunities to flash.  Then it goes to a more abstract argument of why Princely was not given more playing time.  But then we'd be blindly giving credence to the same guy who not only drafted DJ Johnson, but was happy to waste a roster spot and snaps on the guy for 2 seasons and some change.

Most Panthers fans seem to be in agreement that we could and should upgrade Evero. But I do think there is an aspect that differentiates Princely from Scourton beyond snap counts. Princely got humbled to a degree in his rookie season. Hopefully he takes that to heart appropriately and uses it constructively.

[MasterAwesome]

9 minutes ago, NAS said:

Princely overall PFF was 47 compared to Scourton’s 68.  
Not everything shows  up in the stats.  

I saw that, but I also saw that PFF had Scourton listed with 8 sacks which just seems wrong lol or at least everywhere else I saw had him at 5 sacks. They also had him with wayyyy more pressures than I saw elsewhere so I dunno it just seems sus.

[Aussie Tank]

33 minutes ago, NAS said:

Princely overall PFF was 47 compared to Scourton’s 68.  
Not everything shows  up in the stats.  

Evaros scheme isnt a great fit for Princley. He needed to be brought in on third downs and allowed to just pin his ears back 

[TD alt]

51 minutes ago, frankw said:

But I do think there is an aspect that differentiates Princely from Scourton beyond snap counts. Princely got humbled to a degree in his rookie season. Hopefully he takes that to heart appropriately and uses it constructively.

I don't know that there is a huge difference, but that Scourton got way more opportunities. If you want to say that Umanmielen is more outspoken and brash, then fine. Perhaps a little humbling is in order, but they both need to improve their craft. Hopefully experience will help them to do it, but Evero's scheme doesn't look to be doing either one of them any favors.

 

[TD alt]

Evero's scheme is an impediment to excellence from where I'm sitting. It waters everything down from pass rushing to stopping the run.

[frankw]

1 hour ago, TD alt said:

I don't know that there is a huge difference, but that Scourton got way more opportunities. If you want to say that Umanmielen is more outspoken and brash, then fine. Perhaps a little humbling is in order, but they both need to improve their craft. Hopefully experience will help them to do it, but Evero's scheme doesn't look to be doing either one of them any favors.

 

Princely is very confident. He even told Tepper on the draft call that he would have to break their pockets in three or four years. Look I love the confidence. I love the attitude. But I don't love any form of blame game for underwhelming if the talk isn't turning into results. Blaming Evero is not moving the needle for me. If he's as good as he thinks he is he will flash regardless. I hope he does.

[NAS]

9 minutes ago, frankw said:

Princely is very confident. He even told Tepper on the draft call that he would have to break their pockets in three or four years. Look I love the confidence. I love the attitude. But I don't love any form of blame game for underwhelming if the talk isn't turning into results. Blaming Evero is not moving the needle for me. If he's as good as he thinks he is he will flash regardless. I hope he does.

Comes across as entitled. Needs to just put in the work and let it speak for itself

[PNW_PantherMan]

15 hours ago, TD alt said:

Evero's scheme is an impediment to excellence from where I'm sitting. It waters everything down from pass rushing to stopping the run.

People say stuff like this.  Like the scheme didn't overachieve and get more out our roster than a lot of DCs would have.

The impediment to excellence is the offense.

[Khyber53]

Young man, be the change you wish to see.

Want more effective pass rushing?

Then become an unstoppable force. Work on your technique, work on your strength, study your opponents, excel at practice and practice longer and harder than your opponents and teammates do. Otherwise, don't complain from the bench.

 

[kungfoodude]

Evero's defenses have finished 23rd, 32nd, 29th and 30th in sacks.

He will likely never have a top 10 defense in sacks. It is scheme.

Brian Burns second lowest sack output was his season with Evero. It was also overwhelmingly the lowest Pressures he had ever had in his career.

If you want a high pressure, sack heavy defense, it is never going to be with Evero.

Edited January 13 by kungfoodude

[PleaseCutStewart]

17 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

If you account for the discrepancy in snap counts, then Princely and Scourton actually had pretty similar production.

Scourton:

• 717 snaps (68%)
• 47 tackles (7 TFL)
• 5 sacks
• 15 pressures
• 1 FF

Princely:

• 222 snaps (22%) 
• 24 tackles (2 TFL)
• 1.5 sacks
• 5 pressures
• 1 FF, 1 FR

I think Scourton was simply given more opportunities to flash.  Then it goes to a more abstract argument of why Princely was not given more playing time.  But then we'd be blindly giving credence to the same guy who not only drafted DJ Johnson, but was happy to waste a roster spot and snaps on the guy for 2 seasons and some change.

I saw plenty of Princely this year not rushing his gap or keeping contain and teams targeting him to run at. Scourton is more of a 3 down lineman, Princely is a Brian Burns type of edge that can only rush the passer. Princely is raw and needs time to develop, but he also needs to shut his mouth.

[kungfoodude]

I don't see a lot to warrant all the backlash against Princely. Yes he has to be better as a player but history could end up being on his side.

Aside from the previously stated stats, don't forget that Clowney had 9.5 sacks with Baltimore in 2023 and 8.5 sacks in Dallas this season. With Evero: 5.5

I so believe PART of what he is saying, that it is the coaching and scheme that limits pass rush pressure and ultimately sacks.