Wahle/Lucas signings

[megadeth078]

Here's some hints: Hackett, Landon

[Delhomeboy]

Not to me. Wahle never really panned out. He had one Pro Bowl year where even he said it was a lifetime achievement award and not given specifically for his play that year. Lucas has been hot and cold. He's made a lot of plays, for sure, but he's also been very unpopular in the locker room, too. Not because he's a jerk, but more so because he got all that money. Brentson Buckner used to hint that Lucas had a habit of getting hurt whenever the best receivers were up next on the schedule.

They were both good, solid additions to the team. But they weren't saviors, and they certainly didn't put the Panthers over the hump.

Don't take this as a "down with Ken Lucas" thread. It's a "down with going after big money free agents" thread. I think the team you see on the field today is the result of Mike Wahle leaving and Ken Lucas earning back the respect of his teammates this year by taking one for the team in training camp.

Wahle never really panned out because of the system--however, he did very well in 2005, and was about our only real lineman other than Gross.

Lucas has been solid, sometimes even spectacular, ever since he's been here. Remember who we had before he came? Exactly. Gamble was a rook the year before he arrived, and other than that...nada. Terry Cousin? Please. This year is the first year I've seen him really get burnt, and for that, knowing that he may, in fact, be losing a step, I am despondent.

[beastson]

I'm disappointed in Lucas, but I wont call it one of the WORST signings, due to his excellent play the first year we signed him in 05

[top dawg]

lucas isn't as bad as people like to make him out to be.

sorry...

Lucas isn't as good as people like to make him out to be.

[unicar15]

Stop trashing Lucas...the end

[Fiz]

i'd just like to point out that signing a pro bowl guard and a 4 year starting CB is somehow worse in the OP's mind than David Carr

[Britneck]

My point was....it was more or less the Panthers philosophy not to go for the top free agents. They had that year after the Super Bowl where everything fell apart and then they almost came back to make the playoffs, and they thought "we can plug in Wahle and Lucas and voila...we're back."

I don't believe this works in football. Maybe it does in basketball or baseball, but football is more about the camaraderie in the locker room. Bring in someone who hasn't gotten bloody with the gang and pay him more money and you're bound to create problems. Look at the last two seasons before this one. The Panthers had the talent. What was missing?

Now they have it back. Let's hope they don't fall for that "we're one player away" line of thinking again.

They wont cause we are gonna win it all this year so we wont be "one player away".

[Matt Foley]

i'd just like to point out that signing a pro bowl guard and a 4 year starting CB is somehow worse in the OP's mind than David Carr

David Carr was signed as a backup. But I'll concede it's pretty close to the Wahle/Lucas signings.

I think a lot of you are missing my point here. It's not that Mike Wahle and Ken Lucas suck. It's that the Panthers paid them too much money, thinking like Fantasy Football GMs and not real football GMs.

I'll give you another example from another sport. The Yankees went out and signed ARod thinking he was the final piece to get them back to winning World Series. Clubhouse chemistry before his arrival? Off the charts. After? Oy. Is ARod a stiff? No. But do you think the Yankees regret spending all that money? I bet they do.

[megadeth078]

by that logic, we could sign any tom, dick and harry for the backup role as long as they don't play because then we woulda fuged up.

[panthers55]

If these were bad signings but convinced us to abandon the quick free agent route to success then it was ultimately a good thing not a bad thing. So your logic doesn't follow. Plus as others have said these were guys who have actually worked out. Both significantly contributed to the 2005 team. And didn't Lucas take one for the team and directly contribute to the positive chemistry this year with his extremely mature attitude.

Besides who say we aren't paying a ton for our players. Is it better to pay a guy like Gross 8 or 9 million bucks to stay or should we let him walk and pay someone else 7 or 8 million to sign here?? What about paying Pep 14 mil this year and potential more next. We signed Wharton for a big chunk and Gamble as well. In my mind they are very similar to free agents in that we paid them big bucks to avoid the free agent market. Most big money free agents aren't fly by nighters but proven vets with a track record of success. So in the end they aren't often any bigger risks than resigning our own players to big contracts. Most of the time you should know what you get with free agents as well as your own.

[Fiz]

David Carr was signed as a backup.

making it even worse because he was paid starter money.

[Fiz]

Thread: WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE SIGNED A PRO BOWL OFFENSIVE LINEMAN AND A STARTING CORNERBACK????????? MY GOD WHAT WERE THE PANTHERS THINKINGS??!??!?? WHAT DO YOU MEAN KEN LUCAS SINGLEHANDEDLY WON A GAME FOR THE PANTHERS IN ARIZONA?!?!?!?! WHAT DO YOU MEAN MIKE WAHLE WAS ONE OF THE BEST PULLING GUARDS IN THE LEAGUE BEFORE HE GOT HURT?!?!?!?

jesus what a stupid thread

[Matt Foley]

Thread: WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE SIGNED A PRO BOWL OFFENSIVE LINEMAN AND A STARTING CORNERBACK????????? MY GOD WHAT WERE THE PANTHERS THINKINGS??!??!?? WHAT DO YOU MEAN KEN LUCAS SINGLEHANDEDLY WON A GAME FOR THE PANTHERS IN ARIZONA?!?!?!?! WHAT DO YOU MEAN MIKE WAHLE WAS ONE OF THE BEST PULLING GUARDS IN THE LEAGUE BEFORE HE GOT HURT?!?!?!?

jesus what a stupid thread

I guess you just can't have a legitimate discussion at a Kool Aid stand.

The Panthers were picked to be in the Super Bowl by many in both 2006 and 2007. They didn't make the playoffs.

They replace Wahle. Lucas gets punched by Smitty in training camp, then earns the respect of the locker room...respect that wasn't there from the time he signed, by forgiving Smitty when many were ready to go after him themselves.

The point of this thread, for those too freaking dense to read anything about their favorite team without a knee jerk reaction...is that going after big money free agents is not the answer. You build through the draft and you go for the second and third level free agents.

The Panthers returned to that philosophy and look what has happened.

[megadeth078]

"worst things to happen to this franchise in the past five years"

...and you wonder why you get the reaction you're getting. Legitimate discussion? please.