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CRA

Official Mueller Report Thread

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so we have the Mueller report.  Outlining that Trump WANTED the Russia help and knew it would aid him. 

We have a POTUS who has spent the last year thanking Putin and aiding him. 

we have the lawyer for the POTUS again championing their is nothing wrong w/ a hostile power aiding and helping someone win the presidency

and.....we still don't talk about what is clearly about to happen in 2020 (man, the MSM is horrible.  Congress too). 

 

 

Trump should be impeached.  We have a mountain of evidence showing he is unfit for a variety of reasons and that will continue to grow as the other investigations and oversight continue. Impeachment should be done not because the numbers are there for it to happen or not happen, or if it is "politically good" for folks, etc.  Impeachment is something Congress does when it is needed.  Bottom line.  Nothing more.   Otherwise it is pointless.  It isn't something to be trotted out only when beneficial or votes are lined up.   Dems are just being a variation of what Republicans have 100% become.  When both sides completely abandon principle....we are done.  Everyone Republican in DC knows Trump is unfit.  But they put other things before that.  Now, Dems are doing the same.  

You impeach because it is right.  If it doesn't lead to his removal of office? Fine.   You still do it.  Now all we are doing is empowering more corrupt behavior if we don't.  Normalizing Trump.  Nothing more dangerous and bad for America. 

If there is nothing wrong w/ welcoming Russia aid to win then there is nothing wrong w/ a future Dem welcoming and working w/ ISIS or Iran or NK.  That is what the Congress is setting precedent for.....and the whole of Congress on both sides is going to set that precedent all because some people think what matters most of THEM keeping their job as career politicians

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Coolin hasn't logged in since Thursday, lol gotta love "independent" voters.

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There's this new show on TV called "Murder for Hire" which includes video recording of spouses trying to hire someone to kill their spouse. Problem for them is the so-called hired gun is actually a cop.

Obviously, the cops aren't going to carry out the request to kill someone, but that someone is still going to jail for conspiracy to commit murder. 

The correlation here is that the WH's attempt to downplay the obstruction and firing of Mueller because "but it didn't happen," is just bullsh!t. The fact is Trump tried to fire Mueller, but the guy to do it refused. Hence, conspiracy to obstruct sounds like a crime to me.

 

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16 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

There's this new show on TV called "Murder for Hire" which includes video recording of spouses trying to hire someone to kill their spouse. Problem for them is the so-called hired gun is actually a cop.

Obviously, the cops aren't going to carry out the request to kill someone, but that someone is still going to jail for conspiracy to commit murder. 

The correlation here is that the WH's attempt to downplay the obstruction and firing of Mueller because "but it didn't happen," is just bullsh!t. The fact is Trump tried to fire Mueller, but the guy to do it refused. Hence, conspiracy to obstruct sounds like a crime to me.

 

Apparently not true:

Quote

Under most U.S. laws, for a person to be convicted of conspiracy, not only must he or she agree to commit a crime, but at least one of the conspirators must commit an overt act (the actus reus) in furtherance of the crime.[24]

In other words, in order for there to be a conspiracy, one or more conspirators needs to actually make some sort of effort to conduct the crime.

 

What we've got here is a rambling, entitled and increasingly senile old man speaking out loud about the things he'd like to happen, and people ignore him the same way you just let grampa go off on his rants at Thanksgiving because you know he's got dementia. If no one follows through on them it's not conspiracy, and not a crime.

That we've got a rambling, ignorant, mentally enfeebled man in charge of the nation is an entirely different and equally significant issue.

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1 minute ago, Captroop said:

Apparently not true:

In other words, in order for there to be a conspiracy, one or more conspirators needs to actually make some sort of effort to conduct the crime.

 

What we've got here is a rambling, entitled and increasingly senile old man speaking out loud about the things he'd like to happen, and people ignore him the same way you just let grampa go off on his rants at Thanksgiving because you know he's got dementia. If no one follows through on them it's not conspiracy, and not a crime.

That we've got a rambling, ignorant, mentally enfeebled man in charge of the nation is an entirely different and equally significant issue.

that is for conspiracy. 

we talking obstruction.   

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1 hour ago, CRA said:

that is for conspiracy. 

we talking obstruction.   

@Captroop @Anybodyhome

thats the tricky part CRA. The obstruction charge now becomes Conspiracy to commit obstruction. Because he ordered obstruction to happen as ABH implied but didn’t actually obstruct himself(that’s still up to judges to decide). 

However, I believe without a reasonable doubt that him ordering someone to commit obstruction even if they didn’t do it. Is still conspiracy to commit obstruction because someone was told to do it and there’s proof it happened. That’s overt.

The issue is that person was the WH council. So is there attorney client privilege? 

Is this why mueller footnoted impeachment can still happen after a president leaves office?

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Impeachment should happen. Removal from office should happen. The issue is this would mean the GOP admitting their party allowed this to go on and didn't take action themselves to save face. The GOP would have gained a TON of political points for ousting a Republican president for wrongdoing but instead stood by and covered for him. So if we move forward with impeachment, I can guarantee that no Republican will do the right thing and let it pass. And Trump will never willingly resign.

 

Don't get your hopes up people. Nothing good will come of this. Not to say it shouldn't come, just that it won't because our government has been corrupt and divisive for too long and it will only get worse until both sides agree enough is enough and reset us to true bipartisanship (which is a pipe dream, I realize).

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3 hours ago, CRA said:

Trump should be impeached. - You impeach because it is right.  If it doesn't lead to his removal of office? Fine.   You still do it.  

He should be impeached. But not right now(unless mueller shocks the world in oral testimony). The dems need to use the next year to build another mountain of evidence, taxes, behavior, mueller, obstruction(not just with this), flat out ignoring law. 

And hit him right about this time next year(unless they can hit him with something harder than this). All the democrats know, even the freshman class unless their brain dead, you only get one shot at this and the senate isn’t removing him. However, if they can make something so irrefutable a few months down the road the pubes in the senate are forced to fold or look like traitors. That’s the win win. Pence can’t win a presidency. 

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2 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

He should be impeached. But not right now(unless mueller shocks the world in oral testimony). The dems need to use the next year to build another mountain of evidence, taxes, behavior, mueller, obstruction(not just with this), flat out ignoring law. 

And hit him right about this time next year(unless they can hit him with something harder than this). All the democrats know, even the freshman class unless their brain dead, you only get one shot at this and the senate isn’t removing him. However, if they can make something so irrefutable a few months down the road the pubes in the senate are forced to fold or look like traitors. That’s the win win. Pence can’t win a presidency. 

 

 

Spot on. Though I fear, even with everything going right and the Dems seizing control of both the WH and Congress in 2020, if they don't make a lot of positive strides in those first two years, we'll be right back to a split Congress and the public bouncing back to wanting a change in presidency. The issue is the system and how it is run and we'll be fighting an uphill battle until there is sweeping changes with it.

 

The fact that the investigation lead to a 10% drop in Trump's approval rating is good. Maybe some of his voters will actually vote for a Democrat just to get him out.

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6 minutes ago, lightsout said:

Though I fear, even with everything going right and the Dems seizing control of both the WH and Congress in 2020, if they don't make a lot of positive strides in those first two years, we'll be right back to a split Congress and the public bouncing back to wanting a change in presidency. The issue is the system and how it is run and we'll be fighting an uphill battle until there is sweeping changes with it.

That’s the issue and are people like Jordan, Burr and some of our other lovely representives from the south going to spend the entire time, fuging poo up in spite. 

I really hope that if the dems can 2020 all three they can push some serious legislation.

The big thing with impeachment, barring trump shooting someone on 5th Avenue(or proven equivalent), there’s only one shot. So if they move to impeach, win and the senate doesn’t remove. The whole thing gets fuged.

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3 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

 

The big thing with impeachment, barring trump shooting someone on 5th Avenue(or proven equivalent), there’s only one shot. So if they move to impeach, win and the senate doesn’t remove. The whole thing gets fuged.

 

This is why Pelosi won't do it, IMO. A failed impeachment and subsequent removal from office means the GOP has ammo for 2020. If they use all the evidence found here and later against Trump in debates and campaigning, the Dems can seize control and worry about punishing Trump as a civilian.

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17 hours ago, lightsout said:

 

This is why Pelosi won't do it, IMO. A failed impeachment and subsequent removal from office means the GOP has ammo for 2020. If they use all the evidence found here and later against Trump in debates and campaigning, the Dems can seize control and worry about punishing Trump as a civilian.

Clinton was impeached, failed in the Senate and the Dems lost the WH (albeit to a crooked elections board in Florida). Didn't backfire for the GOP.

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7 minutes ago, Anybodyhome said:

Clinton was impeached, failed in the Senate and the Dems lost the WH (albeit to a crooked elections board in Florida). Didn't backfire for the GOP.

That was 20 years ago though and a second term. Don’t disagree that they should make the proceedings. Timing is key though. You don’t want trump going into his campaign rally’s going they can’t even impeach me! You want him going in with it hanging over his head.

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1 minute ago, Harbingers said:

That was 20 years ago though and a second term. Don’t disagree that they should make the proceedings. Timing is key though. You don’t want trump going into his campaign rally’s going they can’t even impeach me! You want him going in with it hanging over his head.

I want Trump and the GOP going into the election with SDNY, California, Virginia and a couple other states having made the announcement that they plan to indict Donald Trump immediately after the election should he not win. 

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