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MHS831

Why the Panthers might Draft Herbert

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 This is not to bash Cam or promote my views on what the Cats should do---I simply try to analyze the big picture.  Some of you will not be able to get past that.  I understand--no, I really don't.  Here is what we know (please add to this list if you think of something I forgot or did not know):

1.  The quarterback position in Carolina is shrouded in uncertainty, and there does not seem to be a player on the roster ready to become an NFL starter---since Cam has been injured for the past 2 seasons and is now recovering from surgery, he is included on this list of question marks. If he comes in and cannot perform as in the past, that would mean that he was hurt for most of his current contract--not a bargain as some of you suggest.  You can't build on that.

2.  The team has indirectly suggested that Cam will return, but with caveats--Cam vaguely shared these with the media when he mentioned 100%. Ideally, a healthy Cam in 2020 is the best plan--but so might a trade if he is healthy--if you think beyond 2020.  Cam is positive so we expect it from him, and keeping him on for a year could be advantageous for both parties.  However, if the plan is to develop the QB of the future to grow in a long-term process, giving a 31-year old QB who has an injury history and can no longer run like he once did is almost detrimental to the process.  If healthy, one season while the rookie develops is a good idea on paper--one season that gives the team a chance to address and work out the OL issues. 

3.  There is no guarantee that your draft position lands you the QB you need in 2021.   At least with the  7th pick, we know there is a good chance we get a top QB.   I have spent January and part of February relieved that we would not be tempted to take the Herbert bait.  But then came the SR Bowl.  Not that it changed his history, but it caused me to re-examine him.  I imagine the Panthers did the same thing.

4.  There is reason to think the Panthers will address OL, but not Tackle.  They have Little, and regardless of what we say about him, high second rounders are not dismissed so quickly.  All I know is at the EW all-star game, they interviewed 2 WRs, a TE, and a G.  There are no IOL worth the #7 pick.  While a majority here seem to want that franchise LT,  Thomas has been slipping on the websites maintained by people who don't know squat--but there has to be a reason.  So without a T, and if Brown is off the board or not, will they pass on a top QB?  I know, Herbert sucks in your expert analysis, and I know, Walter sucks....everybody sucks.   But this is based on facts and it demonstrates the sentiment of a lot of experts after Mobile.

" 1/30/20: In 2019, Herbert completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,471 yards with 32 touchdowns and six interceptions. He scored four rushing touchdown too, but Oregon didn't run run him as much. The senior has all the physical tools to be a good NFL starter with a powerful arm, mobility and accuracy. When Herbert is given time, he is utterly deadly in his ability to carve up a defense. He is not a vocal leader, and some teams want their quarterback to be that kind of presence in the huddle, on the sideline, and in the locker room. Herbert had a solid week at the Senior Bowl, and team sources told me that he interviewed well there. "

So what is there not to like? The numbers are there---the tools are there.  Would we regret it one day for not taking a QB in the draft when our situation was so murky at the time?

5. If the Panthers were going to take a QB, would they say that the are not? Probably.  The stakes are high early in the draft.  Even Cincinnati is throwing out mixed signals. Why would the Panthers let everyone know what they plan to do? 

To me, Herbert is the only player that makes this point somewhat feasible.  You have a QB with all the tools--he just needs a clean pocket. He has a "powerful arm, mobility, and accuracy,"  If he check out during the interviews, what more is there?  A year to develop behind a veteran. 

So maybe we have discounted the possibility of taking a QB too soon.  No, I do not believe the Panthers have committed to Cam beyond a "We will keep you for 2020 if you are healthy," and I do not believe they would say that they do not like any of the QBs in this year's draft--and if they did---more reason to suspect they will.

The thing is, nobody knows.  This is not 2015, when the decision would be a no brainer.  There are so many unknowns--so many variables--and if they fall in love with Herbert, this could happen.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

 This is not to bash Cam or promote my views on what the Cats should do---I simply try to analyze the big picture.  Some of you will not be able to get past that.  I understand--no, I really don't.  Here is what we know (please add to this list if you think of something I forgot or did not know):

1.  The quarterback position in Carolina is shrouded in uncertainty, and there does not seem to be a player on the roster ready to become an NFL starter---since Cam has been injured for the past 2 seasons and is now recovering from surgery, he is included on this list of question marks. If he comes in and cannot perform as in the past, that would mean that he was hurt for most of his current contract--not a bargain as some of you suggest.  You can't build on that.

2.  The team has indirectly suggested that Cam will return, but with caveats--Cam vaguely shared these with the media when he mentioned 100%. Ideally, a healthy Cam in 2020 is the best plan--but so might a trade if he is healthy--if you think beyond 2020.  Cam is positive so we expect it from him, and keeping him on for a year could be advantageous for both parties.  However, if the plan is to develop the QB of the future to grow in a long-term process, giving a 31-year old QB who has an injury history and can no longer run like he once did is almost detrimental to the process.  If healthy, one season while the rookie develops is a good idea on paper--one season that gives the team a chance to address and work out the OL issues. 

3.  There is no guarantee that your draft position lands you the QB you need in 2021.   At least with the  7th pick, we know there is a good chance we get a top QB.   I have spent January and part of February relieved that we would not be tempted to take the Herbert bait.  But then came the SR Bowl.  Not that it changed his history, but it caused me to re-examine him.  I imagine the Panthers did the same thing.

4.  There is reason to think the Panthers will address OL, but not Tackle.  They have Little, and regardless of what we say about him, high second rounders are not dismissed so quickly.  All I know is at the EW all-star game, they interviewed 2 WRs, a TE, and a G.  There are no IOL worth the #7 pick.  While a majority here seem to want that franchise LT,  Thomas has been slipping on the websites maintained by people who don't know squat--but there has to be a reason.  So without a T, and if Brown is off the board or not, will they pass on a top QB?  I know, Herbert sucks in your expert analysis, and I know, Walter sucks....everybody sucks.   But this is based on facts and it demonstrates the sentiment of a lot of experts after Mobile.

" 1/30/20: In 2019, Herbert completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,471 yards with 32 touchdowns and six interceptions. He scored four rushing touchdown too, but Oregon didn't run run him as much. The senior has all the physical tools to be a good NFL starter with a powerful arm, mobility and accuracy. When Herbert is given time, he is utterly deadly in his ability to carve up a defense. He is not a vocal leader, and some teams want their quarterback to be that kind of presence in the huddle, on the sideline, and in the locker room. Herbert had a solid week at the Senior Bowl, and team sources told me that he interviewed well there. "

So what is there not to like? The numbers are there---the tools are there.  Would we regret it one day for not taking a QB in the draft when our situation was so murky at the time?

5. If the Panthers were going to take a QB, would they say that the are not? Probably.  The stakes are high early in the draft.  Even Cincinnati is throwing out mixed signals. Why would the Panthers let everyone know what they plan to do? 

To me, Herbert is the only player that makes this point somewhat feasible.  You have a QB with all the tools--he just needs a clean pocket. He has a "powerful arm, mobility, and accuracy,"  If he check out during the interviews, what more is there?  A year to develop behind a veteran. 

So maybe we have discounted the possibility of taking a QB too soon.  No, I do not believe the Panthers have committed to Cam beyond a "We will keep you for 2020 if you are healthy," and I do not believe they would say that they do not like any of the QBs in this year's draft--and if they did---more reason to suspect they will.

The thing is, nobody knows.  This is not 2015, when the decision would be a no brainer.  There are so many unknowns--so many variables--and if they fall in love with Herbert, this could happen.

 

 

I dont want my franchise quarterback introverted

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3 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont want my franchise quarterback introverted

You’re a dumbass.

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Jerry Jeudy. After the combine everyone will be on the bandwagon. Cam is our QB no need to draft a QB this year. Allen is fine as the backup for now.

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No projects until the 4th. If they want to turn this around they need to focus on guys who can play next year and start contributing rounds 1 through 3.

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13 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I dont want my franchise quarterback introverted

Why not?

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Guys can we not quote d the op so that this thread stays readable

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16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

One read dink and dunker. Maybe he's capable of doing more, but that's what he did at Oregon.

By all accounts he is the most skilled QB in the draft. All the questions about him seem to be intangible based. I actually think he may end up being the best of this class.

 

That said....don't want. ESPECIALLY at 7.

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16 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

One read dink and dunker. Maybe he's capable of doing more, but that's what he did at Oregon.

Read the other day that was just their system, said that he would and should fare much better in a vertical passing system.

Also, this is lying time in the NFL and I don't believe a word coming from ANYONE'S mouth.

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I get that looking at the two rarified all star QB prospects in this class and taking the 3rd guy can be frustrating, but it's for that same reason he merits strong consideration

 

We have the 7th pick, not the 1st, nor are we going to have the 1st next season. In a normal draft class that doesn't feature two rarified, all star QB prospects, Herbert would be the 1st pick in the draft.

To get a QB who would go normally #1 overall at #7 (or 5 or whatever) is something you cant turn down, period, and would only do so if the team just genuinely hated Herbert as a prospect.

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From what I have read, he has run the offense strictly from shotgun formation. Also read that he doesn't know how to command a huddle and, in fact, rarely had to call plays in a huddle. I would have to look at tape to verify.

He tends to lock on to receivers early and is late getting to his progressions.

He's been hurt a couple of times, so having a solid OLine is going to be key. In situations in which he has felt pressure, he has tended to be inaccurate or make poor decisions. He has athleticism, but doesn't tend to use it when the opportunity presents itself.

His leadership skills have been questioned. He's not vocal or a natural leader, so you would have to wonder how he is going to handle the scrutiny, particularly if he is replacing Cam.

 

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