SmokinwithWilly

Plus it's also interesting to see how another team in our division goes about building around it's young QB. These 2 teams aren't so dissimilar from each other 3 years apart. We're also potentially, if we move on from Bryce, looking at taking another QB in the future so again, building around a young QB. Which strategies work best. What doesn't. Information is your friend.

Slot the other team 14 and wait for the comeback is not a winning strategy. He's gotta be able to do it the entire game.

We have also spent damn near every available resource we have to help him succeed and this is the result. It's not sustainable to keep a 100m offensive line and spend top picks over and over on offensive players, and RB contracts. When some of those pieces start falling away, we'll start seeing regression.

At the rate injuries are increasing, teams need another 4 slots just to stash backups for the season.

Build around him. Build the line. Get him some weapons. Keep looking for QB2.

Meet what criteria? These are used in analyzing the whole picture of a performance, not in game as much. For that you really have to use the eye test or have your stats with tendencies already ready. Analytics don't go out the door. It's why the 4th down passes work. Tendencies said expect short play in that situation, not a deep shot. We gambled twice and beat the odds. Hit it and you're a hero, miss it and you're a zero. If I had to rank them in order of difficulty, I'd say 1. Short pass to Coker to seal it 2. TMac pass 3. Coker pass 4. Chuba pass Coker pass to seal it was the highest pressure pass he threw. Defense knew it was the game if he hit it. TMac throw was a very nice throw. He was helped by the play call. Deep throw on 4th down in a short yardage situation. Not the call the defense was really looking for. DC made the play call. Bryce executed. Coker throw. See above but Coker was more open. Still a good throw. Chuba. I expect any NFL QB to make this throw. Cam actually struggled with these at times because he threw so hard. Bryce gets credit for the TD toss, but it was really all Chuba after the catch.

I'm not. It's one reason I hate carry over from previous regimes. You can't really tell who was responsible for what. The best you can do is guess. Even Tepper would have no idea how much say any particular person had in a decision.

Depending on where I pick is, I wouldn't mind trading down if we can pick up a couple of extra day 2 picks if there isn't anyone we're really stuck on. We need some help right where some of the more secure positions get filled. I think we need a true center, possibly another swing depending on how BC recovers, a safety (sorry Nick Scott), LBs, possibly another OG depending on if Mayes stays or goes and hopefully Zavala goes. I know we need an edge or 2 and I wouldn't mind a QB if one with the system potential is there without reaching. This year I feel like we need some quantity with some of the safer spot picks.

I don't know where Morgan's approach lies. Last draft looked like a lot of analytics. XL was definitely not the choice for someone who eyeball watched a lot of tape. One season of production does not a 1st round pick make. He was also involved in the Shitterer regime so there's that to consider as well. This draft looks very promising, but we also have to consider how many god awful players we had so we may have gotten more return than normal because our cupboards were already so bare. I think we cut bait with Sam and Baker way too early. The "competition" between them was a joke. Of course we also had General OOU so there was that too. It's like the FO has been drunk the entire time Tepper has owned the team just to tolerate him. I can't make heads or tails of 90% of what's been done other than someone has a bottle or 12 in their desk drawer and keeps turning it up every time he walks through the door.

You know who else had a high completion %? Teddy 2 Gloves. He could check down with the best of them. I'm one of those people that watches and analyzes a lot, my brain does it by default, and it's something that I fully expect our scouts and FO to do religiously. Football is a sport I enjoy, and I actually watch footwork more than most. It drives my wife nuts, especially with our local hockey team. I can tell within a few games usually if a goalie is going to make it or not just by watching their feet. That's why I said stats give you a direction. They help show you where to look. They're a tool. As long as you realize that they're a tool to be used, not relied upon for absolute certainty. I trust my eyes too. And I trust what I'm seeing. 3 years in, and Bryce's footwork and mechanics look almost identical to his rookie season and Alabama. Every time I see that jump pass I want to scream. Or when he squares up to the line of scrimmage to throw a pass instead of stepping into it to drive a throw. He does seem to have some sort of clutch gene, but he also has a WTF gene that rears its ugly head too.

He's been suggested a few times as someone with the physical skills who was young and could possibly fit the system DC runs. A throw it at the wall and see if he sticks option.

Here's the thing. You compared him to Jake. Jake was signed to the practice squad out of college. Bryce was the number 1 overall. Their expectations are wildly different and so are their contracts. You can talk all you want about what a player is and where they are now and all this other mumbo jumbo, but Jake never had a 5th year option and we weren't talking about the possibility of a top 5 QB contract extension at the end of his 3rd year. What he was expected to be matters because we invested heavily at a cost of future capital, including a 2nd round pick this year, for him to be that guy. The cost to add Bryce took value from the team. To be worth it, he has to add that value back. Actually, I don't prefer yards, TDs, or only INTs. All those stats by themselves are misleading which is why I said you have to use a lot of different stats. ADOT - Average depth of target. Completion %. Pretty obvious until you factor in ADOT. 0-5 has a lot higher C% than 10-15%. Hang time. If a pass is in the air for 4.6 seconds vs 3.1 on a 40 yards throw, that gives a DB a lot of time to correct. Is it a loft or is it a laser. EPA - Expected points added. A way of measuring QB efficiency on every play. CPOE - ranking pass completions based on several factors, not just the throw. There's obviously more, but those are the more common. Typical stats don't show everything. You need to look all over. Looking at a stat line is lazy. That's why I said, you need to analyze everything. Once you start looking at the numbers you start looking at the player. That's why you follow numbers. They lead you places. You look at what happening when the numbers show you patterns. That's where you start finding the problems that yards, TDs and Ints won't show you.

It's how we ended up with Brian Burns and not Greg Little in the 1st. Dan Snyder overruled his entire staff and took Dwayne Haskins RIP. If Burns had been the selection like many expected, Hurney had already said he was taking Little at 16. That would have brought his 1st round success rate down a few pegs. Woof!

I'm not a glazer, and I don't think he's the 2nd coming of PM, I think he was in a very bad situation in Washington behind an oline as bad or worse than Vegas' this year. He was under pressure constantly. Like David Carr's rookie year in Houston pressure. It's hard to really judge a guy under those circumstances. I think he has the tools to be a QB in the NFL and he could work in the system that DC likes to run. At worst, he's an improvement over Dalton. At best, we find someone who can push for the starting role or take it and get some stability at the position. If he doesn't work out, we move on. There's nothing wrong with taking a look at the guy.

I'm not denying any reality. I've been watching it for 3 years. You've been arguing that he is significantly improving beating the top teams in the NFL. I'm arguing he isn't. He may be part of the wins but his part is not significant in those wins. Who are these top teams that he is leading the way, putting the entire team on his shoulders and carrying them to victory when no one else can? Where are these dominant performances against Super Bowl contenders that leave no question Bryce is the franchise QB we traded a fortune to get at #1? He hasn't done anything that any other mid tier QB isn't already doing. He was brought into this league expected to start at a 7. That is what he needed to be to be a legitimate day 1 starter for any serious NFL team. He started at a 1. He's improved to a 6 on a really good day, a 9 on his outlier ATL game, a 3 on most days, and a 0/1 on his worst. He's still below where he needs to be. It doesn't matter that he's improved. His improvement may look significant overall to you because he started as the worst in NFL history, but even so, his improvement still leaves him worse than your average NFL QB. I'm not doing any mental gymnastics. You're making the argument that Bryce is key to us winning these games. I don't think he is. I think you replace him with 20 other QBs and the outcome is the same or better. Judging by the statistics you openly don't use or believe in, Bryce is in the bottom 3rd of the NFL as a QB. The eye test for this year says he is the bottom 3rd in the NFL. You yourself say he should be replaced. But I'm the one doing gymnastics?

Been in competitive sports all my life. Not been my experience ever.

Security blanket or not, Dalton is done. He can't win a game as a backup or even compete at a minimal level. He needs to go. Bryce has had a woobie for 3 years. Time to put that away.

87% of the time

That's what mini megaphones are for. It can end up with a trip to HR. I can neither confirm nor deny this. All I can confirm is that it's really funny the day before thanksgiving on the mic in the grocery store.

I've said the same thing. Give him a chance behind this type of line and he might surprise some people. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But he can't be worse than Dalton, and even if he is, it's not like Andy was winning us any games, or even being competitive.

It's not a wild theory. If Bryce is the guaranteed starter next year, regardless of what happens in camp, that's a mandate from either Dan or Tepper. You don't think that if DC or the players see that QB2 is seriously outplaying BY in camp, but BY is still the guaranteed starter, that won't affect things? You can't lead when it's clear you're not the one making the decisions. And if Dave is the one forcing BY to be the starter no matter what, it's still and issue because he needs more evaluation. At some point the evaluation has to stop, no more leadership councils, and just do what's best for the team. Let your best players play. How do you think history would have treated Bellichek if he had benched Brady after Bledsoe came back from injury? You have to do what's best for the team as a whole, not just one player.

We won. But why did we win? Did we win because Bryce led a commanding offense all day? Or, did we win because of 3 extremely well timed turnovers that resulted in a huge swing in points? I'm going with the latter. Bryce did his part, but he did not dominate this game the way you are trying to make it sound. We beat the Rams on this given Sunday. He beat a 4-8 Atlanta team. Put up his best game statistically against them aided by 250 YAC. Wouldn't exactly call that a great team, even though they had the best passing D at that time. We beat GB. He was forgettable and the defense held GB to 13 points with 6 trips into the red zone We beat the Jets. Very good team? 13 points. Offensive juggernaut performance there Dallas and Miami - Rico does something not seen in the NFL in 14 years. 500 yards of offense by a RB. Our offense ran through him. More rushing yards than passing. Bryce was riding his coat tails against the 2 worst defenses in the NFL. 1st ATL win 30-0 - Again, forgettable Bryce performance. Defense destroyed Penix and he imploded. We won't agree on this at all. We've beaten the Rams with 3 key defensive turnovers resulting in a huge point swing on Stafford's worst performance of the year and GB with our defense making huge defensive stands in the red zone in really bad weather. Nothing he's done I wouldn't expect from a mid level starting QB in the NFL. But remember. The highs got higher last year and then he went swimming in the sewer to start this year. Insert another mid tier QB behind this line with our RBs and our record is the same if not better.

If you tell another QB you're being brought in but Bryce is the starter no matter what, Dave is being forced. Hypothetically, we trade for Howell and in camp he looks like prime Tom Brady. He's riding the pines because Bryce is the starter and that's just the way it's gonna be. Dave's checking out. Why? Because that's not what's best for him or his team. If Dave is the one doing the forcing, then that is a symptom of an even bigger problem which is what many of us have been saying, no one knows what the hell Bryce is as a QB. You only lock in your QB when you have to evaluate him at all costs. If we still need to evaluate in year 4, then the QB competition needs to be wide open.

Just because I shoot an 80 on the golf course one day doesn't mean that's what I'm capable of on a regular basis. That's just the day everything came together perfectly. That's an outlier. 250 YAC is most definitely an outlier. The best way to evaluate is to remove his best outlier and his worst and evaluate everything that remains. That gives a more accurate picture of the season as a whole.

Then I would expect Dave Canales to take the path of Frank. You cannot force a coach to be tied to a QB no matter the results. Frank checked out because of this. Dave will too.