SmokinwithWilly

Just saw Daniel Jones having season ending Achilles surgery.

Almost to the point of needing to carry a dozen linemen anymore. Way too many injuries for most teams every year. I'd like to see the roster expanded a few spots to help, or even a few more protected spots on the PS and expand a few slots there.

Their WR injuries have hurt as well. No consistency in that group at all.

If you want to make people uncomfortable use the word "moist" in regular conversation.

No reason for the Browns to trade him. He's cheap and has time to get better. His value can only go up for them.

No it doesn't. We've put 3 years worth of resources into him. I want him to be successful. His success means the team is successful. Him not being a success is bad for the team. Him not being a success and the front office thinking he is and offering a huge contract is catastrophic. I can differentiate between these things. Obviously you can't.

We don’t currently have 9 wins. I didn’t care about a winning season before it started and I still don’t. I care about building a consistent winning organization. We haven’t had that in 3 decades. This season was always about, did we have a franchise QB? Take away the name and the draft position and evaluate the play over the course of the season and I think he hasn’t been good enough to label this QB as a franchise elevating player. He has required an unsustainable amount of resources to make him a bottom tier QB. Our defense has been middle of the road despite having among the least amount of dedicated cap in the league. We are relying on 2 rookies for our pass rush because we’ve spent heavily in draft and FA on offense. This QB doesn’t make our team a contender for the next decade. I won’t pretend otherwise.

Most of those QBs got their extension following year 3 of their rookie deal. Lamar is the only one that played on his 5th year. No guarantee Bryce or his agent would agree to the option based on what’s happened with other QBs.

And there are no reputable sources regarding Bryce. Every beat writer, talking head, and reputable source lost all credibility after drafting day IMO.

Can you answer the question? Do you think Bryce should get an extension for 50-55m per season at the end of this year if he demands it?

You've been making all these arguments from the 1st person. So unless you're privy to a whole lot of inside information from the front office, this is your opinion. What I'm seeing from you is that you believe that Bryce is the reason we are winning all these football game. I don't think he is. I think we could plug in any mid tier QB in the NFL right now and have the same or better results. Our defense is vastly improved as is our running game which have contributed greatly to our overall record. I'm not talking beyond the 5th year. At the end of the 3rd year is when QBs typically want their extensions. They don't play on the last year of their rookie deal. The only 1st round starting QB to play his final year on the rookie deal was Jones. The last QB to play his entire 5th year option without the extension was Lamar. Bryce could very well want his extension this summer because that's what the rest of NFL QBs get. 55-55m a season could be the asking price for Bryce. Do you think what we've seen across 3 years warrants such a contract? Your opinion. Not what you the front office will do.

And you're rationalizing what you want to see. There are definitely scenarios where Bryce doesn't return next year that aren't outlandish. Here's one. Bryce wants an extension similar to the other top QBs at the end of year 3 that are still with their original team that drafted them. The Panthers refuse that level of compensation. The options are trade, cut or hold out. This is actually a very possible scenario. The only QB I can remember to play on his final year without the 5th year is Daniel Jones. I can't think of another. Lamar played on his full 5th year. Do you think, based on his current level of play, Bryce is worth 250m for 5 years with 180m guaranteed?do you think the Panthers believe Bryce is good enough that he deserves that kind of contract, bearing in mind what it will cost to make happen? Icky- gone. Lewis - gone. Mayes- possibly gone. Is Bryce still worth it?

The Atl game was an anomaly. 200 air yards with 250 YAC. That may be a record day on the stat sheet but that is not normal production. Does Bryce get credit for Tremble running over 5 Atl defenders for 45 extra yards? He didn't beat a Super Bowl contender by himself. Seems I remember an interception in the end zone, one returned for a touchdown and a strip sack turnover when the Rams were driving. Pretty sure the D had a significant role in that win with those takeaways. Without that defensive TD, that's a loss. And it's not like our offense was in a shootout keeping pace with theirs. They were driving on our defense all day long at will. That pick in the end zone. Like a TD or field goal. That's at least a 10-17 point swing from those 2 plays by the defense. You think we were making that up? It took 2 4th down gambles to score because we couldnt sustain drives. And Bryce with 20 passing attempts all day is not leading an offense that was a 2:1 run to pass ratio. You can say Bryce had a great game. I say he had 3 great plays. The rest of the time, he was invisible. You're arguing he's going to get the option based of an anomaly game he hasn't come close to repeating in 3 seasons and team win, heavily influenced by takeaways and defensive scoring. And in SF, he didn't look like a rookie. He looked like the QB that got benched week 2 of his 2nd year. I think even discussing the option is asinine at this point. Let him finish the year. If he puts up 4 more ATL games, offer the 5th. He puts up another SF or 2, the 5th year should never be mentioned again.

Which was my point. And entrenched starter can lose his job due to extremely poor play and Bryce has had literally the worst QB play in the NFL since being drafted. He hasn't even had to face a remotely capable QB in camp and he's being kept starter for some other reason than performance after 3 years. I'd call that coddling.

Since you don't believe in stats there's no way to have a rational discussion. Statistically, across all metrics that measure a QBs performance, for 3 years, Bryce has been the worst starter in the NFL. Where in any other sport, does the worst player in the league at his position play for 3 years without ever facing one day of competition for his job? And you're right, the Bucs aren't going to tell Baker that. He already knows it. It's the NFL. The highest level of football in the world. Not. For. Long. He already knows if he isn't the best QB on the team, chances are high that he could and should be replaced. Any competent coach/GM would do it or they could lose their job. But since you've said starters are entrenched, backups who've taken the starters job Brady from Bledsoe Romo from Bledsoe Dak from Romo R. Wilson from Matt Flynn Hurts from Wentz Kaepernick from Smith Cousins from RG3 Tannehill from Marriota Warner from Green And a little closer to home Delhomme from Rodney Peete. There's a few

Well the decisions of Tepper and his minions have led to the worst record in sports in the last 8 years. They've been wrong a hell of a lot more than they've been right. I trust my conclusions a hell of a lot more than theirs.

Its also time to accept the fact if the powers that be had listened to the Huddle we'd have made the correct choice on major decisions more often than not.

Mayes might be the most natural center we have on the roster. I don't count Corbett anymore because he's hurt too much. Paradis was coming off major leg injury, we had Bozeman and that was horrific. I was told repeatedly by many on this board anyone could play center and we should focus resources elsewhere. It's been the Achilles heel of our line for a long while now. Finding the QB of our line needs to be a priority this offseason.

It looks like he's really starting to get his leadership role entrenched. I'm not a huge fan of his schemes at times, but I think we may lose him to a HC offer potentially because of that leadership quality. It's the trait I liked most in Ryans before we hired Frank, but he refused our interview request.

Ive never understood not going after a center after Kalil's neck injury. Center is the keystone in the offense as much as QB. Our line has really struggled without that leadership position. That's always been a core of offense to me, even moreso than tackles. We were spoiled with his level of play.

I think the reason we immediately picked up Darnold's 5th was what we traded to get him and it wasn't reasonable to expect him to reach his potential on a new team in a new offense in a single season given where he was at in his career. I think 2 seasons was a reasonable expectation, especially given the fact he had been coached by Gase.

How many teams coddle their QB the way Bryce has been coddled? I have never seen any other team in the NFL EVER baby a QB the way that Bryce has been. Bryce was named day 1 starter his first year. It was obvious he didnt deserve it. He wasnt ready as evidenced by the worst rookie year in NFL history. So let's move to year 2. He's named starter again with no competition in TC and is benched 2 games later. We have the ghost of a backup in Dalton who is so bad he can only beat Vegas and let's remember, the only reason he lost his starting job was a car accident, not because Bryce actually beat him out in practice. And year 3. We sign Dalton again, who already proved he couldn't be depended on to put an even remotely passable performance on the field, and bring back Jack Plummer, who was even worse than last year. It was obvious he was nothing more than a pretend body in an attempt to create an illusion of some type of attempt to find a backup. Then we start again with garbage play again and Bryce gets benched with a phantom injury, and the ghost of the ghost of Dalton breaks his thumb on the first drive and craps the field all over again. If we had actually made an attempt to find a legitimate QB2, it's possible Bryce doesn't step on the field again. Bryce is not agood QB and if we had any other mediocre QB, our record would be the same or better. Bryce is not entrenched. He's been placed, protected and sheltered from ever having to face a real QB competition in TC. Richardson and Levis both were ass and both were benched and eventually replaced. Do I expect Baker to face competition in camp? Sure. I expect Tampa to find the best QB2 they can at price that fits their cap and resources and system and get him up to speed. If he's better than Baker, and if he's better by a significant margin, that's best for the team. The ultimate goal is a Super Bowl. Bellichek was constantly getting QB2s with the GOAT as his starter. He knew the value and that was realized when Cassell led them to an 11-5 record as a backup. You and I may think differently than the people that matter but I will say it again. If you're afraid to bring in a capable backup, especially after the debacle of last year. The starting role wasn't earned, it was given, and that's loser mentality.

Why would you not let him compete? Put the best QB on the field. Period. Why must we coddle Bryce? Why should everyone else on the team have to compete for a starting job except for him? You think if the team sees another QB outperform him in TC and he's still handed the job it won't wreck the locker room? Again I say. Loser mentality.

The team should. If they don't, they should be fired. You always look to improve. Always. Bryce gets hurt week 1 and is out for the season. You want Jack Plummer as your QB for the season because you don't want anyone capable of competing? That's loser mentality.

I wouldn't mind taking a look at Michael Mayer from Vegas. Ever since they took Bowers he's disappeared. He's had a thumb injury this season, but he may be able to had since he's been mentioned in some trade rumors this year before the deadline. His contract is still manageable too.