Mr. Scot

Just now, CRA said:

lol, I'm done with you.  Which is why I replied to someone else boss. 

Yet still talking about me

(should probably sing a chorus of "I've Got You Under my Skin")

Here's the bottom line, dude. You made an incorrect statement because you're conflating arguments.

Yes, Bryce does fit the scheme we run. That doesn't make him good or mean we should keep him around for the future, but it's true.

You should really just accept that and move on because all you're doing now is making yourself look worse.

...

PS: One question. Should I go ahead and write a response about Scott Fitterer in anticipation of you trying to dodge the topic and attack me again or are you looking at a different route this time?

You didn't list the refs as an option?

I'm not just talking about us. Officiating around the league seems as bad as it's ever been this year. 

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think they plan on being "light" in the FO so that all ways remain the Queen's ways. JMO.

They don't want many dissenting opinions, specifically those that have any sense.

Nicole?

I mean, if the Teppers are lying about being hands off, I get that. But that doesn't sound like Dan Morgan. 

Also gotta figure they now have a guy from one of the best organizations in the NFL. Can't believe he's wanna stay with that kinda sh-t show 

We're running an offense based on Weat Coast concepts.

If you think back over the best versions of that system, you generally find yourself remembering the names of great receiving tight ends.

Throw in that unless it's in the plans to try and ship Legette  somewhere, we're probably not looking at another wide receiver, so TE makes sense. 

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I agree we are a better team, I genuinely don't believe we are substantially better than last season but it is a step in the right direction, without any doubt. We just need to keep making sure the roster is continually improving each offseason. That's been a massive problem during the Tepper tenure. Almost every offseason has resulted in a worse roster than the year before. In fact, this may be the first time during his ownership that it actually improved.

Well, besides Tilis, we also parted ways with Cole Spencer (who I was never a fan of).

Definitely possible we see more changes in the front office this offseason. Heck, some positions that were vacated they didn't even bother to fill.

We'll see what happens...

5 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Here's one of the most maddening things, that will be shown in full light over the next three weeks.

The same people around here that called Darnold a bum and Mayfield a washed up over draft are also the ones saying Bryce is a catastrophe. Yeah, and I've been one who said Bryce wasn't big enough, brave enough or capable enough. I said back in the day that Darnold had a lot of fight in him and got shouted down. And on Mayfield, heck I didn't know, I just knew we had a very, very bad team that was run terribly.

But I saw both of those guys go out there and resurrect their careers and be play-off bound since shaking the Carolina clay dust off their cleats. And we sat there and cat called their cars as they pulled out of the parking lot, laughing at what nobodies they were.

Over the next three weeks, those two guys may just serve us sh!t sandwiches and then settle down to their just desserts. And then we'll probably let Bryce go off into the realm of other teams.

And when that happens, will we see him coming back, better than before and we're left to re-sit this cycle all over again? Same naysayers, same results, same revolving carousel of ponies and pundits? 

Will we end up looking like the Temu version of the San Diego Chargers back in the day watching Drew Brees come to fruition in the previously moribund Superdome while we whiff on a Manning pick just to be jilted for Phillip "Always a Bridesmaid" Rivers?

I could try and predict our future or I could just go straight to banging my head on the wall

The plot of this franchise over the Tepper era has been like a bad movie.

1 hour ago, Donald LaFell said:

We could improve greatly next year and still be in that .500 territory but we aren’t ass anymore and it feels great. I hope we can upgrade to average and good by 2027. 

I do genuinely feel like we're better this year than last year. 

I'd still prefer to move ahead with a sifferent quarterback, but I'm resigned to the reality that it's not gonna happen.

Just gotta hope they're right about Bryce and we're wrong.

2 hours ago, Candler Cat said:

Not ass

But in thr neighborhood

Corner of Crack and Bunghole?

Couple more things from last night... 

This is an absolute mess

50 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Amazingly well considering the injuries and shuffling around. Joe Gilbert deserved a lifetime contract. I literally not remember a time when the panthers had better overall depth, and the only better lines off the top of my head are 2015, 2008, and 2003. 15 and 08 had no injuries at all (basically most important factor for offensive line play) and in 2003 they were all taking horse steroids.

resources invested isn’t predictive, or it should be but isn’t. It shows where the priorities of the team were going into the seasons. And for two seasons now this team’s money and free agency and draft have prioritized the offense. 

Gilbert or Harold Goodwin?

I know Gilbert is officially listed as the OL Coach but that was Goodwin's role last year before they gave him one of those goofy "Run Game Coordinator" titles. 

Far as I know, they're both coaching OL. 

3 hours ago, CRA said:

Yeah, the trending up narrative is wild gaslighting. 

4 of his last 6 games.

102, 124, 138, 167 and 169 passing yards with 3 total TDs and 5 turnovers in those games.  I mean, that isn't even backup caliber QB play.  

People consistently let the anomalies do way too much talking and let it mask way too much.    

Thought you were done with this conversation...

(for the second or third time)

Accusing someone else of gaslighting while pulling out selective stats is ironic enough, but given how you've done in this thread I'm not surprised.

You haven't given a single substantive answer, you've dodged questions repeatedly, cut and paste the same stuff about half a dozen times, and for several pages now rather than actually throwing anything relevant out there as a counter, you've just stuck to attacking me. 

You've lost, dude. Probably best to go ahead and actually take that exit you keep saying you're going to take

5 hours ago, frankw said:

Bryce had his best statistical game ever this season against the Falcons but aside from that he has been either hot lukewarm or ice cold. And sandwiched in between the games he's won have been games like the 49ers loss and getting swept by the Saints with the division and the playoffs on the line. Only to some Panthers fans could that be considered "trending up" because we have lowered the bar so much for our third year #1 overall pick. I've legitimately never seen anything like it. Bryce Young is number 5 on the list of games played by Panthers QB's in franchise history with 43 games which is 2 games shy of tying Kerry Collins for number of games played as a Panther. And he has a 13-28 record. Yet he's "trending up". GTFO 🫵

Oh, come on.

That "career record" includes the first year disaster under Reich (actually under Tepper, but hey).

But even if it didn't, a career win-loss record doesn't tell you how somebody is doing right now. 

That's basically like saying you can't judge by his performance against the Rams because he looked terrible in week one. 

Get the impression this is gonna be talked about quite a lot...

Earlier in the same game...

From tonight's game...

Depending on your point of view, the Rams might have a better claim to being screwed out of a game than us

Found the full interview:

Thus sayeth Pat McAfee while interviewing Luke Kuechly... 

One note here: The Twitter caption talks about Kuechly praising Dan Morgan and David Tepper, but when Luke mentions "Dan and Dave" I believe he's actually talking about Morgan and Canales.

I'm going primarily by context, but I also kinda doubt Luke would refer to Tepper as "Dave". 

I was scared I'd see us mentioned

9 minutes ago, carolinanimal said:

do you think you can run a successful offense with half the options gone?

Not really, but I'd say the WCO is a better fit for Bryce's skill set. Tough to picture him in a Coryell.

He's just not a good enough player ability-wise and  consistency-wise.

I think he'd make a great backup, but I seriously doubt there's any path to that destination. 

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

All super cool.  Let’s stay on task here.  We talking Bryce Young and Dave Canales.  I know you don’t want to but I’m not going anywhere else with you at this point as has been told to you over and over.  

We are talking about Bryce, and have been. Specifically, your suggestion that he doesn't fit the scheme Canales runs.

And on that point, I accept your concession

5 minutes ago, carolinanimal said:

i just think that this offense directly shadows what Bryce is comfortable doing. thats why it looks like it does. A lot of throws to the outside of the wr route tree, the flat, comeback, out(sometimes) and the corner. this with rollouts is what i think he is most comfortable doing. The problem dave canales has is i dont think he is as comfortable or even good throwing the inside part of the wr route tree, the go, the post , the drag , the curl(50/50) or the slant (50/50). that eliminates a lot of possible plays. 

A lot of that is basic WCO, but I'm guessing you know that. 

Would add that I'd rather a coach adjust his schemes to fit the players anyway but that's a separate debate. 

10 minutes ago, strato said:

So yeah let’s blame a DC for failing to succeed after they pillaged your defense in every manner available to them to prop up their QB. For two hard years like scorched earth they tore that defense down and spent the proceeds on the offense. You know. Draft, cap, FA. Drained the defense. 
Whatever you think of Evero. Whoever the DC is. No one can compete with what they gave him. 
The whole organization should have been apologizing to him. 

I am no Evero homer but let’s be real. 

There are definite schematic issues with Evero, but that's not the point.

The point is Canales was willing to give him chances, and that even after a (historically) bad year.

Bryce, at least so far, is ending this season same as he did last year: trending up.

That tells me Canales is highly unlikely to move on from him.

11 minutes ago, strato said:

Okay then.

To me that means Russell Wilson was Coryell. Because I see the proposition completely in the Russell Wilson punt/pass put it up for grabs mold. Count on the receiver to catch it or knock it down. 
 

And the reason I thought that was the intent with Legette is the abysmal downfield game from 2023. As in, there was barely any.
 

I look at it as if… the result of a deep attempt isn’t as important as the opponent understanding they have to defend it. So I was all for some 50/50s. Coryell, Walsh whoever. 
I do favor the Coryell approach personally but also very much value versatility, it doesn’t have to be strict. Just make the defense defend the whole field, however you do it. It has to include downfield throws. 

His OCs were all guys who ran a lot of WCO concepts. Heck, even in college he was work some of the same things. 

To be clear, WCO doesn't exclude chucking it downfield. If you ever watched the Eagles under Reid, McNabb did at least three or four of those a game. 

As far as preferences, I used to be primarily a Coryell guy and hated the WCO (me and another guy used to have those debates on an annual basis). I came around to it later on.

These days I'm looking into E-P

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Canales has never been part of big YAC offenses in the NFL.  That’s not his tree.  Not in Seattle, Tampa or here.  Every O he has been associated with basically has been bottom half of the league in YAC. 

That’s what Bryce needs to happen though 

2 very different things 

YAC is only one part of a WCO.

Darrell Bevell, Brian Schottenheimer and Shane Waldron all ran offenses with heavy WCO concepts (rhythm, tempo, timing routes, quick releases, short passes as long handoffs, etc).

Heck, Waldron came out of a Shanahan tree. Can't get much more WCO than that unless you invoke Bill Walsh.

Didn't hurt that they had Russell Wilson either. WCOs often function better with a mobile quarterback. 

Do you know why?

1 minute ago, strato said:

Well, his job is to win and make Bryce better and other stuff too but he has to have a certain amount of buy in to make that work. If it is real or he has to talk himself into believing it, as coach and leader and in the context of the present time with the whole team needing to believe, who knows? You lie if you have to.

I think you have have to separate that Canales from the detached offseason evaluation Canales. It is possible that you are correct and he is sold on Bryce. It is also possible that he isn’t, but cannot confess. 

Sold, or in the process of being sold. Could be either way.

Consider this for a second...

Last season, our defensive coordinator steered what many have called the worst defense in NFL history. 

Canales would absolutely have been justified in firing him, and no one would have blamed him if he had. 

But what did he do?

He gave Evero another chance to come back and prove he could be better.

Does that tell us something about Canales? I think it does.

Now apply that to Bryce