kungfoodude

Trading for a RB is perplexing.

That's an interesting example because I think the Giants would prefer to not be paying Brian Burns $30 mil, even with the recent market adjustment.

We will see.

Agreed. I think it is poverty franchise BS. But, it is what it is. We just have to hope Horn plays up to that contract.

I am not anti-Williams. I just think he is just never going be to an elite pass rush guy. IMO, that makes him a tough sell at 8. Late 1st, all in.

XL is trending turd. Bryce is a TBD.

He reportedly pursued some of the more elite options out there, so I don't consider that a bad sign. Now had he signed that Kupp deal, I would be calling for his head. I would be very comfortable taking a guy like McMillan at 8 or one of the plethora of solid WR options in the late 1st or 2nd. This appears to be a much deeper WR pool than last season when we reached on XL.

Absolutely. Only a select few poorly run teams get fooled by underwear Olympics champions. Ask yourself if you thought Xavier Worthy was the best WR last year?

I honestly think they are basically all but screaming they are taking an EDGE.

Burden is far better than Golden.

I am trying to avoid laying out the statistical evidence of him not producing as a top 10 CB because I like him and I don't want to launch an attack on one of our better players. But, make no mistake, there is almost no realistic statistical argument to be made for his inclusion as a top 10 corner. I honestly didn't think this was a controversial take at all.

He was viewed as a very good GM for a while. IDK WTF is going on this offseason. It seems like an intentional tank.

So basically no matter the statistic(opposing QB Rating for instance), it just doesn't matter? In your mind and heart, he is the best ever? That seems healthy and logical.

Honestly the Williams deal is structured pretty well. Less than half of that contract is guaranteed money and they have an out after year 2(same as our deal with Wharton). Wharton's deal is 2/3 guaranteed money.

Cap concerns are real. Ask any number of teams, including the current Saints. I mean, have we all forgotten how badly Hurney 1.0 left us cap strapped??

Show me any available metric or measure where he has been top 10?

I don't think that is a great comparison because if anything, Horn was the least impressive he has been in his career. He was just far more available, which is ultimately what we wanted anyway. Also he really does not strike me as a guy simply after a big payday. Almost everything about him from moment one here has been about his amazing work ethic and drive to be great. If Morgan wants dawgs, Horn is a dawg to the nth degree. He is just a dawg with hip dysplasia.

I will take that bet. Most of the mega deals are already inked and the CB market is picked over. Unless you think someone is going to extend a rookie with 2 or 3 years in the NFL. That would be quite unusual.

I probably would have gotten an idea about what the ask was going to be far before free agency, if we were too far apart, check around the league to see what I could get for him, reach out to agents of high caliber free agent CB's and really try to figure out if there was a chance of taking a replacement in the draft. Then take all those variables and weigh out the options. And, maybe Morgan did all of the above. Maybe at the end of the day we weren't going to get much in a trade and the options in free agency/draft just weren't what we wanted. Very possible. BUT......we did also have tag options available, so that also takes away from the notion that we actively wanted to do anything other than make him the highest paid DB in NFL history. Yep. Almost always.

I disagree about not being in a position to let him walk simply because we are still in the building process. This is probably at least two more offseasons from being close to that. Pivoting can happen via trade, free agency or draft(preferable). Moving him definitely wouldn't make us better, I think we all understand that. But maybe a future replacement is as good or better. I think we likely are just having to overpay because we are a poverty franchise. I am sure it's probably at the root of a lot of the contracts that seemed above market we had to do this offseason. Nothing new. The Browns, Bengals, Lions and all the historic cellar dwellers have had to deal with it. But, it does often backfire.

I mean....you are aware that we had a historically bad defense with him playing almost the whole schedule last year, right? There is no single player on this defensive roster that is going to be able to single handedly elevate a pretty talent deficient group. Statistically, Horn had his worst year as a professional football player by several measures. You think it might have something to do with that historically bad defense in front of him? So, sadly, subtracting him next season probably wouldn't have the dramatic impact you think because we are still very likely to have a pretty bad defense overall. That's just gonna take some time to remedy. Hence the youth movement with the defensive FA signings. This isn't putting a fresh coat of paint on a dump like Rhule and Fitterer did over and over. This is a long term concerted effort to get younger and slowly put together an actual "core." Prior to the Horn deal, that "core" was literally just Derrick Brown.

I think you have a very simplistic view of a pretty complex system, hence why you are getting emotional and confused. The league is going through a market adjustment period for several reasons(COVID cap freeze, new TV deal, etc) but paying top dollar for players that aren't clearly elite isn't typically a wise long term investment, regardless of market changes. Overpays literally happen every single offseason. We should know, we have done it over and over. Miles Sanders, Ian Thomas, CMC, etc, etc.

I don't know if that is true or not. Probably no one does because I don't think the Panthers FO ever listened to any offers for him. It doesn't really matter anyway, it's not like the Burns deal where a leak laid it all bare. Horn is here to stay. We just have to hope he stays healthy and proves to be worth the money.

Based on what exactly? This is sort of the crux of one of the issues. Even when he has played, he hasn't been an elite CB. A very good one, yes but he hasn't posted much in the way of consistently elite play or numbers or metrics or anything. Don't get it twisted, the ability is absolutely there but we are paying him for future elite play, not past elite pay. That's a gamble.

I agree. It is a position that has been dramatically mismanaged. Our draft selections have been fuging horrifying. TMJ, Mingo, XL, etc. We just keep making the same mistakes over and over. All in effort to replace a top 20 WR which....we had and traded away. Meanwhile, we fumble the "off limits" player in Brian Burns and get almost nothing for him. Unreal. I know people are really attached to the Warren idea(I really dislike it) but I do think we arw aggressively telegraphing that we probably take an EDGE at 8.