TheRed

Phill Simms threatened to punch someone because they were critical of his son as a college quarterback lol.

Guys, Steve Smith threads get people worked up like no other, but the next personal attack gets a timeout.

You guys are all better than that.

I made it this page, and that's pretty much all I'm going to be able to tolerate.

Personally, I don't see why it's so difficult to just appreciate the good times, and wish him well in life, and leave it at that.

He'll retire a Panther one day, and all that will be left is memories. No need for all this bitterness. From him, or anyone else.

Well, to be fair, $20k for that does seem absurd.

Possibly, but considering this was only 3 months ago, it may have been close to the final straw for Houston.

For a defensive team like the Texans to cut a 2nd round pick from only 2 years ago tells me there is more going on than we know about.

Sounds like he's a little out there with his off the field behavior unfortunately.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/05/d-j-swearinger-accused-of-skipping-out-on-20k-bill-for-car-customization/

Well obviously this is crap. For the most part we addressed our needs.

In regards to LT though, we essentially replaced a terrible player with a player who could either be mediocre or really good.

Right now the feel good/nice guy/hard worker story behind Oher has most people satisfied, which we saw countless times as an excuse for Bell and how "he'll get better, just give him time fellas". Of course then those sentiments finally turned to "oh poo, this guy really is terrible, get him outta here!".

We could maybe get a late rounder if a team were willing to take on that contract for a 28 year old RB. Even that's a long shot.

But no GM in the NFL would give a 1st round pick for Stewart, that is beyond dreaming.

Hmm, I think I have the same pair.

Does this mean we don't have to hear sniveling about "weapons" anymore?

Not directing this at you necessarily, or saying this is what you are doing, but in general people should stop trolling about this like it wasn't a legitimate problem. We essentially wasted Newton's first 3 seasons because the only offensive starter we managed to acquire through the draft before Kelvin Benjamin was Amini Silatolu, and he's likely going to be a backup on the OL at best now. Things are looking bright now thankfully.

You obviously dont understand the difference between a content argument and a process argument,  so I wont go back and forth. I dont have to read more than you think Cam was plug and play for the NFL  like Wilson was to know this is going nowhere.  You take every comment as a cut or put down to Cam and that is the filter you read everything through. And you have since you started posting.  Nothing new there. I get all the reasons he hasn't been as successful and as I said many are legitimate.  But if you ever have been part of any negotiations you know that excuses don't care much weight, results do.  He will still get a ton of money but in all these negotiations they line up your stats, results, and other factors and compare you to what other guys are getting paid. Of course there are always exceptions like Romo who got paid a ton with little results.  If I were Cam I would using him as my comparison not Wilson. Again this year should be a huge factor given he can't complain about weapons, defense, or even coaching.     

So basically, instead of even remotely attempting to refute the information I provided you, instead you just go on to accuse me of not understanding your failed argument.

Great rebuttal p55. Thanks for that.

To be clear, I think this is and should be Newton's year. My main concern right now is left tackle. I don't like going into the season with the position being a bigger question mark now than it was at this point last year. We knew that Byron Bell was not starting LT material, but we had limited options. I'm just hoping that Oher is the player that our FO believes he is. Our season will depend on it.

Look I think Wilson deserves a contract, but when people say "he won a Super Bowl" it is almost laughable.

That was one of the worst Super Bowls ever. The Broncos didn't even manage to score a touchdown until the 4th quarter when they were already down 30+ points.

Seattle could have had Big Bird out there behind center, it was a terribly lopsided game. The Broncos were purely awful.

No need to get all defensive like usual.  I am a big Cam supporter since the day I wanted him here.  Have his jersey and wear it to most games. I think he is going to have a great year and perhaps justify the money he wants given he has some good weapons around him.  This year will go a long way to determining what he gets paid.  He knows it and the Panthers know it.  If he takes us far into the playoffs he can use that in the negotiations. If he doesnt, then he really has little to say if comparing himself to Wilson in terms of results.  It wont matter whose team was better just who has had more success.  After all how much success did Seattle have before Wilson? The two year before he gets there they go 7-9 both years.  Since he came there- 11-5, 13-3, and 12-4. Cam cant come close to that. Those are just the facts. In negotiations excuses dont go very far just results.  Doesnt matter if the excuses are legit or not, they still are excuses. Lets be honest for a moment, Cam was not ready for the NFL when he was drafted, Wilson was.  Cam is catching up and with his athletic ability can pass him.  But to this point it is still Wilson with better results.  

Newton came into the NFL with 1 year at Auburn, and a limited first offseason due to the lockout, and still went on to become the rookie of the year. Your "Cam was not ready for the NFL" logic has holes in it bud. If you want to frame it any possible way it would be that the Panthers football team wasn't ready. Specifically our defense in 2011. Whereas with Seattle, Wilson came into a very good team with a top defense. Pretty significantly different situation in that regard.

Also, I like how you once again conveniently leave out a few other notable facts in your argument. In 2010, before they had even drafted Wilson, Pete Carroll had the Seahawks in the playoffs at 7-9, and knocked off the Saints on their way to the divisional playoff game with an aging Matt Hasslebeck. Where were the Panthers the few years before Newton was drafted? Yeah, about that...

Oh, and one more thing, Pete Carroll already had quite a bit of head coaching experience, and wasn't learning on the fly like Rivera was in Newton's first year.

Regardless, make no mistake, both players are going to get paid big. No matter how much some people want to complain, it's going to happen.

Plus Wilson has been more successful than Cam in less time. Cam has the stats but Wilson has what is valued in the league which is wins and stayed healthy. Truthfully Cam should not get as much as Wilson based on results.

Wilson is good, but you are being incredibly silly by just nonchalantly omitting the fact that Seattle has had the best defense in the league the last few years to pair with the most dominant running back in the league as well. Russell damn sure wasn't out there just willing that team to the Super Bowl all by himself.

To be fair, Baldwin and Kearse were his top two receivers.  Russel has had a lot less to work with, unless you're counting RB's.  Then hes had one of the best to work with.  

Top defense in the league the last few years, arguably the best RB in the NFL.

When was the last time the Seahawks defense got blown out in 6 out of 10 games?

"Has had a lot less to work with", lol, well alright then.

He was last year.  His top WR's were Baldwin and Kearse......and BOTH were UDFA. 

The implication behind referring to them as UDFA's is that they aren't very good. Which is horse poo.

Honestly, watching Marshawn Lynch in that offense just shows how much a monster that guy is.

If you really think Wilson has been throwing to undrafted scrubs, you must not have been watching any Seattle games.

Plenty of people in the middle (as myself). 

 

Cam has the potential and talent to be a top 5 QB in the league. He has shown flashes. 

 

With that said, he still has a lot to improve on ie consistency, footwork, decision making, etc. 

I'm trying to think of a quarterback in the history of the NFL who hasn't had to work on those things only 4 seasons into his career.

Guy takes a 2-14 team and wins 2 NFCS championships in 4 years by the time he was 24 while breaking several QB records and he "has to prove something"

You guys are laughable

It always goes back to before he was even drafted. There was really no in between on how people felt about him. They either liked him, or they hated him. It doesn't look like that will ever change throughout his career. So no matter what he accomplishes, some people will never see it as enough, or look to diminish it in some way. It's sad that some people are like that, especially actual fans.

That's debatable.

 

Right now Eli's just in a bad situation.

 

You do end up making a lot of turn overs, when you have to make plays, and you don't have play makers or a good run game.

 

I would hate to see Wilson as the QB of a bad team.

If you put Wilson behind the Giants OL the last few years, he might not even finish the season healthy.

Eli has struggled some, but he's also been taking a beating.

Also. One critical difference here. Eli doesn't have Marshawn Lynch to hand the ball off to.

Rivers had "prime" LT for 2 years, and if I remember correctly, both times he limped into the playoffs.

 

He does have a "decent" squad around him, but what about keeping some talent, rather than letting it walk out the door?  VJ, Sproles, Tolbert, etc,?

 

No, Rivers isn't playing with scrubs, but not many QB's are.  I can tell you this, I wouldn't trade our skill position guys for any of theirs right now.

 

As to the Championship thing, it just doesn't mean as much to me when talking about how great a player is/was, same for all players.  Not going to slam Manning 1 for only winning 1, same with Favre, not slamming Jim Kelly, or Dan Marino either.

 

I just don't think Eli or Ben are better than Rivers because they have rings....they also play for 2 of the most well run teams in all of sports, same with Flacco.

Well you could make the argument that if it weren't for LT, they might not have even been in the playoffs Rivers first couple of seasons. 28 TD's in 2006. Unreal. Even in those last few years with the Chargers when he was winding down, LT still put up 11 touchdowns in 2008 and 12 in 2009.

What is funny about the comparison with Eli in here, and about him being a "turnover machine" is that for a long time Rivers had the reputation of blowing games at the end with costly interceptions. I think Rivers is really good, but I don't see a reason to poo on other QB's who actually won a Lombardi Trophy just to make him look better because he hasn't won one.

Eli is a turnover machine. Wilson is not. 

 

I am gonna poo on any turnover machine. 

Wilson does receive a little unwarranted hate here, most of it is just jealousy. I think he's good though.

I just wouldn't rank Wilson quite that high, and I certainly wouldn't try to drag Eli Manning through the mud to make Wilson look better. Because as much crap as Eli has gotten throughout his career, he played his ass off to win those two Super Bowls. I'm not even going to bother debating that.

I rarely use SB's as a way to judge a QB, but to each his own.

 

Rivers is a top 5 QB in the league, he just is on a bottom tier team.  Look at the completion %, TD to INT ratio, yards per game as a starter, etc....

 

 

He will likely go down as a Marino type player.

If you want to talk all time rankings, sure.

Yeah I get your Marino reference, but even as good as Dan was, ultimately it all boils down to winning a championship. That's THE goal.

But if we are talking current QB's, I would have to disagree. Rivers has a decent squad around him right now. At one point last season he was talked about as possibly being the MVP, and then he had that awful game against the Dolphins, and things just went to poo from there. Not all his fault though.

Now in terms of career, Rivers had arguably one of the most dominant running backs of all time in his prime in Ladanian Tomlinson.

He hasn't exactly been playing with scrubs all these years.

Wilson is right where he needs to be. Back to back superbowls. Should have two rings if his coach didnt go full retard. 

 

He is smart and simply makes plays when they are needed. 

 

Put Rivers on that Balitmore and Giants team and they do even better. Eli throws way too many picks for me to put him above Rivers regardless of his lucky superbowl wins. 

So wait, Eli has two "lucky superbowl wins", but you rank Russell Wilson 4th out of all QB's for being the winning QB in one of the most lopsided Super Bowl's in history? Which by the way was also one of the most dominant defensive efforts by a Super Bowl team in the Seahawks. Seattle may as well have been playing a high school team out there, that is how putrid Denver was. They didn't even score a touchdown until the 4th fugging quarter.

But you're gonna poo on Eli? Ok....

Just a quick ranking i threw together

 

1. Brady

2. Manning

3. Rodgers

4. Wilson

5. Big Ben

6. Brees

7. Romo

8. Luck

9. Ryan

10. Rivers

11. Flacco

12. Eli

13. Cam

14. Tannehill

15. A. Smith

15. Cutler

Wilson is a little high on that list, and Rivers at 10 above guys who have actually won 1-2 SuperBowls like Flacco and Eli is a bit much.

Just a reminder, MedellinHeel is the guy who raged for days to anyone who would listen about how awful Kelvin Benjamin was after we drafted him.