Loyalty4Life

I bet Cade starts at guard.

He is hit or miss like everyone else but I will say he was super high on Coker. Can't wait to get him back.

I know we are all sick if losing and that magnifies everything. I think fans in general have a very "how did we look last game" mentality. It's only been just over a year for Canales and XL but it seems like the hope of turning the corner from the way last season ended has only pissed fans off even more since we've had so many issues to start the year. It's hard to have patience because fans are in year 6 or 7 of sucking while Canales and XL have only just started. The shine wore off super fast. That being said Smith like to hear himself talk and his mouth moves faster than his brain.

That was what George called them. That was his descriptor. Drop all those if it makes you feel better The whole convo is highly subjective. We're not exactly following the scientific method here. Serviceable was the low bar he set. He also said star. I think we can both agree that Steve Young was a star. He didn't ask for any parameters. He didn't ask for any context. If he did, I would have answered differently. I don't think anyone would argue all of those players had rocky starts to their career which they overcame.

Man, losing Hurt sucks so bad. I think Cade is serviceable. I am very scared for Zavala. I really pray he's improved. I have a very hard time believing he's better than Brady. I hate, hate, hate the NFL for the 18 game schedule. It would be very difficult to convince me that the added games in a sport already high in injuries does not contribute greatly to the rash of injuries. If ever there was a example of killing the golden goose.

Thank you for literally proving my point in so much detail. Which of those QB's you listed did not go on to be serviceable? Yes, there are a ton of variables that make comparisons less valuable in a lot of way but the whole point is can a pro QB overcome a bad or horrible start. I'm sorry if you think 3 games more in his first year and 3 less in his 2nd somehow makes the Brees comparison not relevant. That is blantently disingenuous and makes having real discussions a pain the butt. We're comparing "similar" bad situations and bad QB play early in a players career. Some of the stats, like games won are lower for Bryce but still comparable. Other stats like interceptions are in Bryce's favor, ie 19 for Bryce over 2 years and 31 for Brees. Maybe we are not answering the same question. George stated "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star." I could have just said, Maddox and Young and proven his statement wasn't factual. It's the over the top pearl clutching and hyperbolic statements that make my eye twitch.

I'm most surprised with our offensive playcalling. Teams seem to know or have a very good idea where a lot of our run plays are going this year. We don't seem to blend the offense together well this year. It's condensed formations power runs or 5 wide spread. What happened to roll outs, moving the pocket, PA? I know the way the game went handicapped the run game but it's odd. Coaches did not have any kind of blitz protection packages. That's on them. Bryce cannot press and hold on to the ball looking for deeper shots when the check down is right there. On the blitz fumble, he had Chuba in the flat right away and a beat later had Sander on a drag. Last year he was eating that stuff up but this game seemed to revert to bailing out right looking downfield. That is correctable as old habits are easy to fall back on under pressure. I more worried about the ball security. Gotta make it more of a deal breaker. Turnovers ruin everything and two hands on the ball and knowing when a play turns into a low percentage is something Bryce has to get better at. He was very good 2nd half of last year with not turning the ball over. Now, he's loose with the ball and bailing out right from pressure. I will say that the first week of Yosh Nijman being dog walked into Bryce's face repeatedly probably gave him a bad case of deja vu. I'm still on board and still have faith. Keep pounding. As a side note, the dude calling Derrick Brown a JAG is the height of huddle logic. In 2023 he broke the NFL single season record for most tackles by a dlinemen with 103. 21 tackes for loss putting his 3rd all time for the Panthers for interior dlinemen.

Bruh? Is Sam Darnold not serviceable? Did he not have a great year last year with the Vikings? He just went 22-33 for 295 yards with 2 TD and 2 picks in a win over the Steelers. How is this wrong? Combined two-year totals which includes Drew's 8-8 record in his first year: Drew Brees Record: 10-17 Passing: 5,392 yards Touchdowns: 28 Interceptions: 31 Passer Rating: 67.5 Bryce Young Record: 10-17 Passing: 5,280 yards Touchdowns: 26 Interceptions: 19 Passer Rating: 77.95 This even forces me to include Bryce horrible first year and it's still comparable. What am I missing now? Does the climate out west for Drew make a difference when compared to east coast weather in comparison? There is never going to be an exact match. It's why I shared so many. What is so freakin difficult is seeing that some NFL QB's have had similar starts to their career as Bryce, including getting benched or traded but still went on to be serviceable, much less a star? That is literally all I'm saying here which is direct response to George's "Show me anyone who has been as bad as Bryce through 30 games and turned into a serviceable player much less a star." The fact that you can't concede even small points is very telling. What I'm saying here isn't even controversial. I feel like I'm in the football version of Idiocracy.

Way to counter my argument. I concede. Drew Brees' second year (2003): Starts: 11 Record: 2-9 Passing: 2,108 yards Completion %: 57.6% Touchdowns: 11 Interceptions: 15 Passer Rating: ~67.5 Bryce Youngs' second year (2024): Starts: 14 Record: 5-7 Passing: 2,403 yards Completion %: 60.9% Touchdowns: 15 Interceptions: 9 Passer Rating: ~82.2 I am not saying Bryce is going to turn into Brees. But this is a great comparison to prove my point that guys can take time to develop and other QB's have come back from situations comparable to Bryces to not only be serviceable but outright stars.

Sam Darnold and Geno Smith recently. Jake Plummer, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Tommy Maddox, Steve Young, Drew Brees, Rich Gannon, Alex Smith, Vinny Testaverde, Terry Bradshaw.

Great example. What has Sam Darnold done since we got rid of him? I'm not saying we should have kept him but it turns out he has a lot of talent but our coaching staff at the time were morons. Same with Baker. I've got a good friend who is a diehard Browns player and would loooooooovvve to have Baker back. Should have never traded him but that's the Browns. I don't want us to be the Browns. This are all instances of teams/fans that give up on players too soon, don't see how coaching and situations effect a QB's development. If Darnold had gotten drafted by a team with a decent coaching staff he may have figured it out sooner.

It a message board so I can see the difference in what we are talking about. Quote by 45cat: "Yes, but it's only in these circumstances where he thrives, that's the problem He can't be a true franchise QB and wait until the game is out of reach when the defense goes into prevent defense to finally flip on his baller switch." The circumstances where he thrives being only times when the game is out of reach and garbage time. That is the lie. It was 45cat who defined his play in garbage time as "turning on his baller switch". I don't think I've even given the illusion that Bryce "can" be a franchise QB if he only "flips on his baller switch" during garbage time. I don't think anyone has ever said that. The whole point of what he is saying is that you can't give Bryce credit for garbage time. I agree. I just happen to think it's hyperbole to say that is the only time he's played well. There are more than 2 choices of "He sucks, cut him. Worst QB ever" and "Franchise QB". I've consistently said over and over that despite his bad play, he has only shown a ton of improvement overall in the last 10 games from last year. The difference from game 1 last year to game 18 was something very few fans even thought possible. People saying he was too small and would never hold up in the NFL. Dude can take a shot. People saying he doesn't have the ability to throw down the field. That great pass in game 1 from this year that Nola should have caught in the endzone was 43 yards in the air. He can make all the throws. They said he can't throw when pressured. Was one of the top QB's under pressure over the 2nd half of last season. They said he doesn't throw deep. Had one of the highest deep pass attempts in the league over the 2nd half of the season. They said, Oh, well, he can but he's not good at it. Of those deep passes he was one of the most accurate despite a high drop rate by his receivers. People keep saying it's been 3 years. That's enough time to see he sucks. In reality it's been 2 years and 2 games. There is no way I'll ever believe his rookie year didn't set him back. No matter what was said it was a horrible situation on every level. We are trying to come out of and build from that Frank Reich year which I hope was the bottom of the barrel. I've never seen a worse situation for a rookie QB, maybe for any QB. I don't think it's that much of a stretch after how bad that year was for any players development to set it aside and say that year doesn't paint an accurate picture. I'm not even arguing for Bryce in so much as I'm arguing to have more patience and quit with the hyperbole and over the top statement or outright lies. It's only because a handful of the same people have hated Bryce since he was drafted and have rarely given him credit for what he has done and can do. It's the lack of an accurate representation of Bryce and our situation and the development of players. 2021 - It was Derrick Brown's 2nd year, week 11. He was benched. Calls to trade him. He sucks. The Panthers are cursed. Fast forward a few years and he has developed into one of the best players on the team and a Captain. I don't know if Bryce will spiral and completely bust or if it's just a rocky road to stardom like so many players before him. We have very little to lose and everything to gain by staying the course right now.

I've never said "balled out". The statement was that Bryce only plays well when there is no pressure and when the game is out of reach. That is a lie. I named numerous games where he played well. I never said he flipped any kind of switch. Bryce Young has played well in some games in the first half. Bryce Young has played well in some games in the 2nd half. Bryce Young has played well in some games under pressure. Bryce Young has played well in the final drive with the game on the line in multiple games. All of those show he is not just a Jag that shows up in garbage time when the game is out of reach. I named the close games in response to a different question being that we were the opposite of a competitive team over the last 10 games last year. We won 4, got blown out in 3 and were competitive in 7. Two were in OT which is about as competitive as it gets. Seven out of 10 games where we lost or won by less than a TD would be defined as competitive and that would certainly not qualify as "the opposite" of competitive.

Rookie QB, Frank Reich, no offensive line and limited skill positions. No run game, bad defense but let's judge a player potential in that environment. That season was something for Bryce to overcome, not a indication of the kind of QB he can be. It's why I mostly disregard it, especially since we fired the entire coaching staff. So, yes. I'm calling 1 year and 2 games too early to blow it up when the team improved great from the year before. I think I even called 5 wins before the season and was really only looking for progress and a solid plan and foundation with Canales. Check. In this 2nd year I said put the over/under at 8 wins and want to see Young take another jump in his progression. That has not happened for the player or the coaches but we still have 16 more games to grow and produce. If we don't and this is as good as Bryce can get, highs and lows then we'll move on and try something different. If we do make a jump and go on a run and Bryce does make another jump then we are in business. It happened last year despite everything and this is the NFL. Unexpected stuff happens all the time. Bryce becoming a top 15 QB won't even make it in the top 50 crazy and unexpected things that has happened in the NFL. We've had one year and 2 games with Bryce, Canales, Morgan. With the place the team started from and Bryce shitting the bed those first 2 games I was very impressed with how Canales handled Bryce and how Bryce responded.

I never said he had a good game in the Denver game. As you said we had a good first drive ending in Bryce throwing a slant to XL for a TD. It was garbage time but the back shoulder throw to Coker for the late TD was a great throw. Throws like these in bad games are why I say he "can" do it and has the physical tools. The question is can he do it consistently, continue to improve, grow and become our QB of the future. Up to this point that was a hard no but with a new head coach and Bryce in his 2nd year it was 100% the right call to play out the year and see if he got better. He did. Two games into this year is still more of the up and down quality of play and coaching but there is still plenty of potential and we have 16 more games to decide if it's worth it to continue down this path. I don't know what will happen but I know cutting him or benching him now makes zero sense on any level. I said of those last 10 games we were only blown out in 2 of them. I'll concede the Denver game was a blow out. So 3 blowout loses and 7 competitive games, 4 of which we won, all decided by less than a TD. Sounds like a team growing, improving and getting better. All I want to do is see where that leads and if those examples of starting NFL level quarterbacking can continue to improve and become more consistent. Anyone with pride would retire? Laughable. Do all of you quit in your daily lives every time things get tough or don't go your way?