EightyNine

1 hour ago, Growl said:

The biggest issue facing our society today (slightly exaggerated) are people who actually believe that the people doing press conferences for their favorite team actually believe the things they're saying and aren't just echoing age old tropes in an effort to get back to their lives as fast as they possibly can, which means every time legitimate draft discussion comes up on this board, you have some pseudointellectual dork saying "breh? Why all these words and great analysis? We just gonna do the BPA bro! Heh! Why should I worry when we doing the BPA"

Gettleman just took another player at a position of need.

I agree and disagree with this.

Even though BPA is a cliche and might be overstated, it is a cliche for a reason.  Over time, it has proven to be a fundamentally sound draft strategy.  Gettleman said recently that as people move forward, they get further and further away from fundamentals as they try to outsmart themselves.  I think every GM says they want the BPA and they talk all the same rhetoric, but its not always easy when there is so much pressure across the league to win NOW.  Thats what makes it so hard.  Its hard to build for the now and for the future.  But the GMs who stick to it the best (Gettleman), see more consistent success over time.  Its all about getting solid players from the draft, and being able to find cheap serviceable talent to fill the rest.  You may not have the "dream team" your after every year, but you will be competitive every year.  Not reaching for need is the safest way to compile good players.  There are no guarantees with any player.  But you have to assume that you will increase your odds of hitting on the pick if you take the player that you have rated higher.  You just need to have a GM like Gettleman who can fill in the missing pieces.

There is truth to what you are saying.  We arent going to take a QB or MLB with our first pick.. but I think Gettleman's short record here has provided us with enough examples to show that he believes that not going for the biggest positions of need is safer over time.  If you really go back and look, a lot of people were upset at Gettleman after the drafts because he did not take a player that people perceived to be our biggest needs.  He was willing to let Byron Bell hold down the LT spot for a year, because he believed in his philosphy of not overextending yourself and being patient.  His first year here, we had no DB's, but we didnt reach for any in the draft.  There are plenty more examples if you look.  But I also see examples where the player fits the need.  You can do both.  They are not mutually exclusive...as long as you dont take a player who is rated way lower than BPA just to fill a need.

Its really hard to know who we are gonna pick this year since we are picking so late.  We might have the opportunity to take someone who we never thought we would have the chance of taking. 

Everyone likes to say that Rivera loves his vets.. I think ultimately, they keep the players that they think will help the team the most..  there is a good reason that those players are often vets..generally, the longer you do something, the better you get.  Its not like being a veteran is good enough in and of itself

I'm sure no one will agree with me but i think the stigma that Rivera has for being unwilling to go with the younger guys is unfair..I think we put more young guys on the field than a lot of other teams.  I think people assume that the young guys should be ready a little sooner than what should be expected..

Also, i dont think Rivera has the final say on those decisions.

My god, you guys are haters..

Even if he is being "fake", the world would be a lot better off if everyone acted "fake" the way he does..I'd be willing to bet that he has done more good in his life than you ever will.  But you go ahead and sit on your high horse and keep criticizing people that actually do nice things for other people while others sit back and do nothing.

I bet you guys would not like it if that was said about Cam..and there is no argument you could make against Watt that you couldnt use against Cam.

We can agree to disagree.  I didn't think it was a terrible analysis or that he was disrespectful to Cam or anything.  I just think that no quarterback is good because of the way they run, and i felt like thats how he portrayed Cam.  It was nice to hear him give credit to Cam, but i think he short changed him a little bit when it comes to how good of a passer he is.

I didnt take it THAT negatively. I appreciated him giving Cam some props.  I just didnt agree with his position that Cam was winning because he is more athletic..  If Cam didn't make the clutch throws from the pocket that he has in the past, I think there would be very few people that would that would agree that Cam is HALF as good as he is, and we would be having a much different conversation.

I actually didnt like the analysis..  i think that guy made it sound like Cam isnt very good as a pocket passer, and I think Cam is better at that than what this guy is crediting him for.  NO quarterback is good because of the way they run, and this guy made it sound like thats exactly why Cam is good.

​This promotion definitely makes it seem like he is in line to be Gettleman's successor.  I'm not sure how I feel about this.. It will be sad when Gettleman's time is up, so I will be scared that whoever we replace him with just wont be the same..  On one hand, it might be good for our next GM to be someone who has worked with Gettleman and has learned from him..  On the other hand, I totally agree that Beane not having the same type of experience and background as Gettleman makes me nervous..Bottom line is that their probably wont be another candidate like Gettleman.. Guys like him dont come around often, so having someone that can learn from him might be our best option.

​Its also worth noting that Bersin probably wasnt gonna be in the top 4 WR's anyways.. So comparing him with WR5's might have been a little more relevant (Even though it was hard enough for you to compare him to WR4's).  A lot of people are thinking our top 4 could be KB, Funch, Brown, and Ginn.  Cotchery could be in that mix too.  And since you decided to name a couple of other guys that played punt returner as examples of what you want, we already have one in place with Ginn.. so its not that important that Bersin wont do that.

​haha, its cool man. dont worry about it.. You're the one that told me you were gonna look it up.. you told me to wait.. I guess i just thought you were gonna follow through..my mistake.

​I dont have a baseline.  You said you were going to look through the rosters, so I just wanted the overall results.  I want to know if other teams have much better WR4's and see whether or not Bersin is as bad of a WR4 as you think he is, or if most teams have WR4's that are comparable to Bersin in terms of talent/stats.

2 is definitely not enough because if only two teams have WR4's that are clearly better than Bersin, than we are on par with the rest of the league.  I want to see results that make me realize that Bersin is much worse than other WR4's around the league.

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​haha, ok.. Guess that settles it then..

​Ever get around to this?

​Imagine if he caught the game winning touchdown or had some sort of crucial play.

​Who doesnt want a guy that can take it to the house?  They arent that common and they usually arent WR4s.  The problem is that the WRs have to be able to catch the ball before they can take it the house, so that makes it tough to just pick the fast guy.

I think maybe since we havent had a solid WR2 in awhile, people are judging Bersin too harshly  They might be expecting too much out of him and thats because we are expecting more out of every WR not named Kelvin Benjamin (used to be Steve Smith)...just waiting for someone to really step up...like Cam said, We're all just hungry for wins.

We have to hope that Funch can have close to the kind of impact KB had as a rookie. If we actually do end up having a great offense, there is a good chance it will be because our WR1, WR2, WR3, and TE will get the job done 95% of the time in the passing game.  You could also make an argument that our ability to run the ball could be the most important factor for success this year, so it could be hard for the WR4 to see a lot of action.  If we can do those things, than we should be fine and we shouldnt have to worry so much about finding a WR with more speed or only finding someone that can also play ST.  Just pick the guy who routinely does a better job in practice.  Obviously, coaches will value ST. so we will all get to see how the coaches feel about Bersin and his potential. Between the guys already on the roster, I could see Bersin filling a nice role for us in the passing game.

​On any team, most people probably arent fans of the WRs who are past third on the depth chart.  I'd be interested to hear how many receptions and yards people think a WR4 should have..

Since he cant play ST, if he is as bad at getting separation as a lot of you think, it should be the easiest decision ever for the coaches to cut him...seems like a reasonable thought, right?

When youre talking about WR4s, you cant judge them like they are going to be a huge part of the offense.  They are guys that fill a very small specific role...  If Bersin can be a dependable guy that can move the chains on 3rd down every once in awhile, then thats about as much as you can expect from a WR4.  Anything more is just gravy.

​Dont give answers yet..do your research like you wanted to..you are going to have to give a reasonable number of examples in order to make a valid point.

2 out of your 3 reasons for being against Bersin was related to his talent at playing WR.. So dont make it sound like your statement this whole time has been that you dont like him just because he cant play special teams. 

​Apparently, it does, since you couldnt give me a few decent examples.

Also, you werent only criticizing him for not playing special teams.. you didnt think he was a good enough WR either..So i was hoping you could give some more examples of other WR4s that have the type of talent you are looking for.

​Haha, i understand that.  I'll be looking out for what you come up with... You might open up my eyes.

But this does confirm my thought that you were making your statements BEFORE you did your research.  I figured by your responses that that was the case.

​I feel like my question was very reasonable and simple..

If Bersin's roster spot is as unwarranted as you think it is, I feel like it should be easy for you to provide several good examples.. instead, it seems like you are having a hard time coming up with a decent answer.

​Just saw that Tyms had 5 catches last year..probably not a good example..

​I have never heard of Timms so I would appreciate it if you could tell me more about him.. I know that the Patriots have a history of making receivers look good, so I'm not sure yet if he is a good example.

Ginn could end being our WR4, and was probably considered a disappointment for the Cardinals.

The other two arent even in the league anymore..

It sounds like your biggest problem is that Bersin cant play special teams..those were the only examples you gave.  So is it a rule that every WR low on the depth chart MUST play special teams?  I need more current examples to see if we are one of the few teams that doesnt go by that rule.