stan786

Just now, CPF4LIFE said:

Interesting to know if those throws were in 2021 or last season because when people post them its always the season before the last. Personally, i have been closely paying attention to how he threw after he banged up his shoulder because there was some struggle at first.

Sure there was, he was lights out against Tennessee but you can see some of those issues for a few games. You can see it on Strouds 21 tape as well right after the injury, I think that’s why people came into the year saying he didn’t have a super strong arm, when Strouds got a very nice arm in reality.

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

 It really sure what you watched but that montage doesn’t really help your case that he has a strong arm.  In each throw he had to plant and then fully go through his motion to generate power.   

The argument is noodle arm, he’s got a fine arm, it’s definitely not elite. 
 

The whole hyperbole in here on Young gets exhausting lol. The video was in response to someone saying he can’t throw it 40 yards without his receiver stopping for it.

1 minute ago, Lame Duck said:

Yes, he does.  Did you know NFL.com models projected him to struggle at the next level without proper supporting cast? 

There’s a nice little montage of him doing what you say he can’t.

He’s got a very similar arm to Burrow coming out, they can make every throw but you wish that had a tad more.

Burrows arm has taken a step change in the NFL that’s really elevated his game. That’s not unheard of a lot of QBs gain arm strength their first few years in the NFL.

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Poor Cam never learned how to throw correctly, just armed most off his back foot.....He could still be playing if he used his whole body correctly, unreal talent. 

I too wish young checked the height, weight, arm, hand, core, etc boxes. The 1st overall pick should...but he he does check the most important brain box...

Cam will always make me sad, I’ll never forgive Ryan Vermillion and his cronies not shutting him down after that first injury in the Chargers game.  Playing for nothing while your Franchise QB nurses a shoulder injury that would end up deteriorating more and more as he got hit until it eventually did him in.

I’ll say I think Bryce is a lot stronger than he’s given credit for, he runs through a lot more tackles than he should. Josh Mccown seems to think that core strength was important. Doesn’t make up for anything but it’s interesting to note.

Overall I probably agree with you more than we both assume, I’d guess my risk tolerance is just higher.  My desired ceiling to qualify for a number one pick just outweighs what I see CJ as. 

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

I did the same with Mahomes - started off thinking "meh, he's just a big armed kid in a QB friendly system playing backyard football - that'll never fly in the NFL". Then the more you watched his tape, the more you saw he knew exactly what he was doing on those 'crazy' plays.

I don't think Richardson is Mahomes btw - he's the best QB prospect I've ever seen - but I think he's a franchise QB (i.e. a top 5 QB in the NFL that you wouldn't trade for the world) if he pans out. 

A good deal of my projection for Richardson is based on the fact he's 20 years old, had a terrible supporting cast (both players and coaches) and has only 13 career starts btw. If he looked like this as a 23 year old in year 3 I'd be much less bullish on him. 

I was a big Mahomes guy as well, I still don’t get how so many teams missed that. I tend love aggressive QBs that don’t play scared.

My favorite thing about Richardson is he does a lot of the things I love my QBs to do already, I think he’s almost as good in the pocket as I think Young is, it’s impressive what he does with so little experience. I think most his flaws can be fixed by just mechanics related stuff, though his short accuracy does worry me long term it’s hard to project exactly how much a consistent base would improve his accuracy but I would take the risk to find out.

If I’m being honest I’d probably take Richardson over Stroud, but I know that’s me pushing the upside button in my head, which probably explains a bit of why I’m not as scared of Young as many in here.

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

If theres a 4.2 guy and he gets a injury and does all he can, but hes now a 4.5 guy. I feel young needs to be perfect on the injury-front, cause he has less room to lose. Be nice to know his 40 time as well, but thats another issue..

Do you prefer to have the smallest player on a NFL roster playing QB? 

Sure if he actually tears his shoulder like Cam did that’s a different concern. But he’s not getting percentages taken off his arm for every ding, every injury has a different cost. Guys don’t get slower because of minor knee sprains. All QBs should worry about serious shoulder injuries though.

No of course It’s not my preference, I’d love for him to be bigger. I feel like I’ve made that clear. I am just not gonna let a bunch of assumption boogeyman prevent me from taking the best QB talent though, which he is by a decent amount in my eyes.

Just now, Basbear said:

Isnt it odd that you didnt know and had to look it up??........hmmmmm

 

The whole gotcha stuff just doesn’t play with me, it’s an irrelevant correlation. 

1 minute ago, OldhamA said:

I will be banned if he goes somewhere else and shows out and Young dies on an innocuous play and Stroud hits a 'competent NFL starter' ceiling. 

I appreciate how in on Richardson you are I can’t lie he’s insanely exciting to project.

13 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Does anyone have a list of games I can watch where Stroud doesn't handle pressure well?

I've watched quite a few of his games and never noticed anything glaring.

Thanks in advance. 

Honestly I think the stuff I watched in Penn State and Iowa specifically gave me pause. A lot of happy feet and a weird spin thing he keeps trying that’s nothing but trouble. The problem is he doesn’t deal with an abundance of pressure generally.

I think you can see the hints of positives all over though as well and I love he put it together for Georgia. I just wish there was more on tape because the negatives make me really nervous.

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

Given his frame and weight, would you agree he has less "wiggie" room than others?

 

Well brother, if he was drafted by the panthers, guess who becomes the smallest player on the 63 men roster? Including punter, kicker, LS........just gives you another vision....in order to benefit young should we include kristen balboni?? Shes on the team, right?!?

I don’t think there’s anything to prove there is less wiggle room or not, Im not someone who makes assumptions and acts like they are facts though, I try and deep dive anything to find some correlation. Not sure smaller people having joints and ligaments that deteriorate faster is a thing. 

Guys small why do I need a comparison, I’m fully aware of his outlier status. 

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's the thing though. If you think AR has what it takes mentally then there might not be a better prospect available. Are Young and Stroud better QBs right now? Yeah, I think that's fair to say. Will they be better QBs in 3 years? 5 years? That I'm a lot less confident about. If Richardson hits he's gonna be a STUD. It just comes down to what you think he has between the ears and how hard you think he's willing to work on his craft which are the types of things us fans get virtually no insight into.

I hope at the min he goes somewhere that’ll coach him up the right way, him being awesome will make the NFL more fun.

Just now, Basbear said:

Who can afford to lose more stroud or young? Ive seen young throw on his tippy toes and uses his whole body.....

Its just a comparison. You didnt answer that like the others. 

No gut feel, just if young lost a % of elbow/back/arm/leg/etc strength, how much can he do before it effect his abilities? Is a question of how much room young has to recover? 

 

I would guess long term it’s 0%s for him, generally guys gain some arm strength after getting to the nfl as well. If he’s got a degenerative issue they’ll find it in the physical, AC Joint is a pretty common nfl injury.

And I have no clue how big Pinero is I just know Bryce is small, I just don’t get why I’d care I guess.

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

I'm sure someone can dig into the #'s on how often Reich ran shotgun vs under center.

Bryce definitely doesnt have a noodle arm but some pro Young folks are overrating his arm strength. Didn't he go 1-5 deep at his own pro day?

I know Frank lines up like 75% in 2020 but I think it changed based on his QB. He’s probably slightly over league average of 66% I’d imagine. 

2 minutes ago, PantherOnTheProwl1523 said:

This is an issue because too many QB who have any arm/shoulder/elbow injuries never seem to recover well to 100%. Both Young and Stroud have had their share of injuries but which will be the better choice in the draft that has a better chance at being 100% and ready to be a starter.

Yeah they both had almost identical shoulder injuries and both seemed to have a similar recovery arc. Stroud said it effected him most the year, hurt it week one and people were wondering if he would sit out the bowl game. AC joints are a relatively common QB injury. I’d say them both playing at the level they did after it is a positive for both of them.

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

My #1 is adversity. I think both young and stroud are close to the same there. I also think if you put young on OS and stroud on bama, be the same results too. 

 

Another question- who is the bigger player- panther kicker eddy pineiro or young?

Another how do you feel about young recovering form a injury? like he lost 15% of his velocity form a elbow injury? 

What does Pinero have anything to do with it? Who do you think weighs more Sebastian Janakowski or CJ Stroud? Do kickers get hurt at a higher level in the pocket than others? Or just a gut feel thing?

Got a source on 15% or is that another gut feel? and what elbow injury? He came back a week after that shoulder injury and had one of his better performances vs Tennessee, seems like he recovered pretty well. 

2 minutes ago, PantherOnTheProwl1523 said:

Why not. Many here seem to think Young is so what is the difference.

I’m good to just assume they are both invincible if that’s what everyone wants.

9 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

That's what's so cool about science. There's no one correct answer.

. 

 

You are asking an unanswerable question. You are asking a math question, when you should be asking a mental question. Knowing Young is probably going to get hurt at some point. How comfortable are you with that risk? There's your line. You're welcome.

 

If you have concerns about Youngs' health. Draft Stroud. 

 

If you don't have concerns with Youngs health. Well first off, you're an idiot. But mainly, go ahead and draft him. 

 

I got 99 problems, but my QBs health ain't one of them. Cuz I took Stroud.

The Invincible CJ Stroud everyone.

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's very obvious if you watch any Bama games at all over the years. Bama transitioned from an old school ground and pound I formation power running team that wanted to run the ball and only throw when they felt they had to a full on spread offense slinging the ball all over the field seemingly overnight.

And yeah, you gotta give Saban props for that. He's an old school defensive coach. I'm sure he'd prefer to play his old way. But he saw where the game was going and knew that if he wanted to keep getting elite offensive recruits he was going to have to evolve with the game and play the style of ball those kids were going to be attracted to.

 

This is what has made Saban so good IMO, he's never been afraid to make wholesale changes to what he likes to do. Always poaching fired coaches to try and harvest ideas and stay ahead of the curve.

1 minute ago, Lame Duck said:

Kyler who is taller and bigger than Bryce, missed 9 out of 34 games or 26% in last 2 season due to hits he took and is expected to miss beginning of 2023 season.  Kyler also has faster release and bigger arm.
 

Only contact injury Kyler got hurt on was an ankle sprain he missed 2 games with. Everything else was non contact hamstring and knee injuries.

1 minute ago, frankw said:

The argument isn't that any other QB won't get hurt it's looking at the risk level. I can't speak for everyone else but for me if it boils down to high risk I'd rather bank on our staff with decades of wisdom developing Anthony Richardson.

Yeah i'm just saying there is a lot of words and data in here when the argument always just devolves to, "are you ok with what your perceived increase in injury risk between a 190-200 lb player and a 210-220 lb player" and everyone is just working off their assumptions that really are based on a decent amount of what we think of the guys as prospects as well.

At least we'll be on the same side when its Richardson lmao.

14 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I've often wondered how long it would take me to fully buy in if we announced Levis with the number one pick. I think I'd probably convert within the week but it would be a rough one.

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

But he does run. That's part of my concern. A big part of his game is scrambling around buying time and getting himself into throwing lanes. That tends to lead to more hits. He's similar to Mahomes in that regard. He rarely runs for rushing yardage but he does plenty of scrambling around behind the LOS.

He's not running into bigger hits on tape though, he runs around but generally its got players chasing him off balance and his sacks arent incredibly vicious. The hardest hits he takes are when he stands in the pocket and delivers a pass, which generally in the history of the NFL is where QBs get hurt at a far greater %.

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

For sure but he will be the smallest starting QB in the NFL. It's getting to the point folks are just willfully ignoring realities with this situation.

The reality is he's an injury risk yes, but the reality isnt that Stroud is safe from any injury risk because he has 20 lbs on him. The argument is that the masses are using assumptions that havent proven out one way or another to greatly increase Young's injury risk while at the same time ignoring/diminishing CJs.

End of the day neither are safe from the physics of the NFL, the goal for all should be diminishing hits. The Bryce crowd think he does a good job of avoiding the hits that would body bag them and that helps decrease that probability a bit closing the gap on how important it should be to the evaluation. The Stroud crowd clearly thinks he puts himself in more danger and Stroud gets the ball off fast enough to avoid them.

This argument just devolves into the same Stroud vs Young argument with just more hyperbole.

Richardson was 2 all through high school and his first year in college before taking the The Golden Calf of Bristol 15. So i could see him swapping back to 2.

Stroud feels like 7 has always been his number, he'll probably pay up to swap it if he has to I'd bet.

I think Bryce wore 5 for a bit in high school, could see him taking that if Corral doesnt swap or doesnt want to. I have a feeling he'd give up 9 and move to 2 if asked.