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7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I get where it’s coming from. Plus big QBs like Cam/Allen are more prone to attempt to run through tackles while Brees and smaller ones will simply give themselves up. That definitely goes into the equation and can lead to injuries. However when the QB in question is smaller than the “exceptions” to the standard and our HC has stated “of course” his frame is a concern then I’m going to boldly assume it’s a concern. The truth is if Young had a larger frame he would be in the Luck/Lawrence/Burrow category of QB and everyone would know he will be the top pick. 

These are different issues altogether. Jump and the net will appear, fortune favors the bold, philosophical blah blah blah. If Young had a larger frame, a million things. We’d have no shot at him. Look for the truth, not the dogma. 

I offered evidence. It’s a big one. When I found it I was ecstatic. What a mind bender, a game changer, a world flipper. I saw it only as good news. One less concern. Backed by cold hard fact. The pushback to blatantly good news is a surprise for me. Shouldn’t be, possibly. This place is a cesspool, by its nature. Not on any individual. I was lured in by my excitement, as I’m sure most are. I will bow down and take my leave and go back to the occasional glances from afar. Adios amigos. May the draft gods show favor.  

6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Why can’t he play RB? Too small? According to your “data” he would be the healthiest RB yet. 
I saw Stroud struggle under pressure and I saw him handle it well also. Most QBs do play worse when there is pressure. That’s how NYG beat Brady twice (pressure up the middle). I will say it typically made him miss his marks or throw the ball away. He wasn’t turning it over or losing the game due to it. Young is much better under pressure. To me that’s a legit reason to draft Young over Stroud. If our staff thinks Young is the next Mahomes under pressure and it’s worth the frame concerns then I get it. I just think it’s two great prospects and both have weaknesses in which one (Young’s frame) can’t be corrected by our staff, so I lean Stroud. 
I just think it’s irresponsible to say Young’s size isn’t a concern and actually try to say it makes him LESS prone to injury. Reich has literally said it’s a concern. He named two exceptions (who are both bigger than Young), but said “of course” it’s a concern.

I will exit the theoretical. Let’s keep this in the framework of fact. The data says lighter quarterbacks are less prone to injury. That same link (which is broken down by position) does in fact show that heavier runningbacks are less injury prone. I know you were going for snark but just check it out. It’s all right there. While it is “data” it is also just simply data. Didn’t come here to disillusion or attack. Just statstics. None of it’s made up. Thought that make for something new to talk about. Would you not think it irresponsible to assume Young’s frame is a concern without looking at the data?

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It’s not very good data because it needs to be by position AND Young would be an outlier because 5’10 180 hasn’t happened long term before. If you use it like the poster is trying to then if we play a 5’2” 130 pound QB he would never get hurt and we know that’s not the case. There are limits to most data.

It is broken down by position. 

Really I just wanted to offer the explicit data without theoreticals. 
 

But at the risk of running off in the weeds…

You’re probably aware of Strouds explicitly poor numbers under pressure so I won’t post any extra stats (don’t wanna hurt poor frankys head).  I would only ask if you’d consider Stroud less of a risk when the inevitable extended play arises vs Bryce’s plus numbers under the same conditions. 
 

I look at it as proven concerns for stroud vs theoretica concerns for Bryce. 
 

For the record - I’m not in agreement with playing Bryce at running back. Totally a bad idea. Qb only. Come on frank! Don’t draftem for Rb!

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Ok so when the next guy is 5’8 160 he should be healthier. 5’6 140? 5’4 120 should be invincible! Listen that data is interesting, but Young already hurt his throwing shoulder last year and missed a game. So what does that mean?

Just another data point. That specific instance was him trying to make a play rather than take that sack right? He landed on his own shoulder? So theoretically - not trying to be funny (necessarily) - but thank god he didn’t weight very much lol

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

You can post that link a hundred more times it won't make a difference in what will happen if a 300 pound defensive lineman lands on Bryce Young.

Just a heads up. You extreme Young guys are making it so even the regular folks in favor of him are looking at you like you're wacked out of your mind. Take a breather for a bit.

That’s specifically what the link is about. Meant to ease that specific concern. It’s just a helpful point for analysis. Perhaps some haven’t seen. No need to be hateful. We’re on the same team here. 

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah it’s a durability thing. People keep referencing Brees. Young is even a good bit smaller than him. The difference between Rodgers and Brees is the same as Brees and Young (about 2 inches and 15-20 pounds). Brees also got the ball out quick (played more like Stroud honestly) and took very little hits. It’s enough of a concern for me to rate Stroud about Young comfortably. Young is still a great prospect, but so is Stroud with less of a risk.

As far as what’s in this man’s soul, the posted video gives some great insight into his personal toughness. 
 

As far as the data..

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries
 

…it’s a nonstarter.

statistics:  not just for losers anymore! 

15 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Young has better pocket awareness. He feels pressure much better than Stroud. Because of that, he is Much better under pressure than Stroud, Stroud is not good under pressure:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-draft-profile-c-j-stroud-ohio-state

Stroud had one game where he played well under pressure, and even then he left some meat on the bone against Georgia.

I say this liking Stroud as a prospect because there is a ton to like - the mechanics you mentioned and his pinpoint accuracy are both amazing. He looks effortless throwing the ball. BUT I think Young is the better QB prospect with size taken out of the equation.

So what is it about the size that concerns you?

Just now, frankw said:

No doubt. Just the one downside.

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Ahh fug it I guess let's see what happens.

Man I don’t even see it as a downside. Think of the marketability of our Mighty Mouse. 

Thanks for posting this. Jesus Christ guys - watch this video. This is a guy that exists and we could have him if we say so. Jesus. 

1 hour ago, TheCasillas said:

I can see where this question is coming from... I wouldnt bucket this into this category since this is a friend of mine just sharing his observations from an unofficial capacity. He isn't in the rooms or having conversations with decision makers. 

He is walking by and seeing stuff on boards and screens. 

Whoa whoa whoa… what them boards sayin?!

3 minutes ago, Daddy_Uncle said:

Bryce Young's style of play won't work in the NFL. Scrambling around every play to find a passing lane will get him killed. Hell it got Cam killed and Cam has 6 inches and 75 pounds on him

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries
 

tell a friend. Stats are cool

1 hour ago, FugginPoo said:

It’s not height it’s the fact 300lb linemen are going to destroy him in the NFL and will inevitably be more likely to have major injuries from it.  It’s happening to Tua and his frame is bigger

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/weight-and-injuries
 

According to data, the exact opposite of everyone’s expectations is true. 

Sorry for the off topic - does anyone know why when I click on “Start new topic” and scroll through options, the only one I can actually click on is “Nfl”. The rest are greyed out. I’d like to post some relevant statistics to our new qb feud. 

11 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

I feel like I'm in a room full of crazy people. 

Yeah I just learned this is not a good place to be after hours. 

12 minutes ago, ncsfinest21 said:

Or even better yet. These D lineman are 6'6" and he gets balls batted down. College success and motivation is great but it dont transfer to the NFL. Very few under 6'1" actually do well. Drew Brees is the bunch. But it'll be hard to find many others.

Bryce had 1 ball batted last season. The nfl batted balls leaders were a tie between Josh Allen and Justin Herbert. #statsya’ll

7 minutes ago, Tarheel119 said:

That’s fair, but Young would not be taking the hits CMC did as a running back. Young has always been good at navigating the pocket and getting out of harm’s way.

Technically it’s not fair. Unless there’s some statistical correlation between size and injury I’m not aware of. Still waiting on that evidence. Willing to change. Data me please. 

3 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Bryce Young is down to +250 to go 1st overall now

1 hour ago, XClown1986 said:

For the record, I believe picking CJ Stroud would be a mistake. He has the accuracy and the numbers, but his panic in the face of pressure is going to be a real problem. He reverses his field more often than stepping up and is willing to throw off-balance if the pocket closes more quickly than he likes. Those are difficult things to change in a QB. Perhaps even impossible.

A QB should play with confidence and poise. Stroud is lifeless. I want to like him because there seems to be a lot of reason to like him. But I don't. And I don't trust in his ability to be a franchise QB.

Strouds “under pressure” stats bear that out. He’s fools gold. Which I hate saying. 

26 minutes ago, chknwing said:

How many Heisman trophy winning QB's guaranteed NFL success.  go ahead, I'll wait.

28 minutes ago, kass said:

Did any of them fail because of their height?

Hold up now! You can’t just drop that kinda post and not throw your prediction down! 

He’s openly admitted he’s still learning. He’s taken risks - something every wildly successful person does and something generally frowned upon for whatever reason. He’s stated that more balance in the staff is the goal moving forward.

Did some weird things like attempting to phase out keep pounding. But, yeah, I don’t know what more you could ask for when an owner hears the fans and does a 180. Freaking keep pounding game. That’s so awesome. He’s kept his nose out of decisions once implementing staff hasn’t he? Without too much conjecture that seems to be true. 
 

he gets hate for keeping quiet. I love that. Jerry Jones isn’t an attractive alternative to me. 
 

The uniforms have gotten relatively “creative”, he’s not a Jerry Richardson stick in the mud. 
 

He wants to win and he’s open to learning how. It’s sports, he has more money than god, he wants to win at this. We have them same goals. He’s was too patient early on and has been rushing since. He’s gonna get it corrected. We have such an opportunity in 1st world rough times like these to prove we’re not a jets or eagles type fan base. What happened to southern charm and grit? Can’t be too many transplants can it? Let them know what our motto is

I don’t remember a panthers team with so much ascending talent. Makes my feelings feel more legitimate than homerism. 
So many key positions in critical years for traditional leaps in production. 
What if year 3 for Brown works and he looks like the monster he did last week? Worked for Kris Jenkins.

Year 3 for Chinn, Yetur, hell Roy has been balling. Is that real? Cj finally a lock down? I think it’s reasonable optimism. 
Year 4 for Burns who’s added even more weight to his frame and seems like a man possessed.
Very few are what they are, which is well above average/defensive staples, possibly fringe pro bowl - Shaq, Woods, Donte, Ionniddis.

Reasonable reclamation projects with Wilson, Littleton, who have both had outstanding preseasons. 

I feel there’s a reasonable expectation that this d is loaded. 

Didn’t even get to Jc or Luvu, (our best players) ascending for different reasons. Pretty sweet depth at cb. Who knows what Marquan McCall or B Smith could contribute. 
 

Just don’t recall any side of the ball with this much reasonable upside. I don’t see weaknesses (run d concerns have been overblown, go look at league averages), I don’t see free agent losses as damaging, Ceiling is Roof. Lesssgooooo

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

They were desperate

The raiders said “no” last. Or first, I guess