thefuzz

Couldn't care what the team uses, if the minds in that building think it's worth it, it's worth it.

You can say past isn't relevant to QB size because it all changed with Brees and Wilson....that could be true.

It's also could be true that typically smaller players can't hold up, nor can they typically make the throws needed to get to the next level at QB.

That said, there are very few starts in this league by guys 6' and under, compared to 6'3" and over.

19 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

If we do all this trading and don't have one of them as the better fit for the offense I'm losing faith in the staff. Both great, but Reich has a playbook an one will fit it better than the other. Tepper picked Reich so he should be allowed to get the guy that fits his system

I agree.  If Frank and Fitt don't know who will best fit what they are trying to do by now.....well....that's....not good.

At least how I see it.

1 hour ago, Swaggasaurus said:

Oh wow. Saw a couple clips of him turning his head in there. Unfortunately saw more staredowns tho. Processing, timing, progressions, all coachable. He’s got superior ball placement, doesn’t need more air under his throws like this video suggests

Had a son last year, have watched the least amount of football of my life over the past 24 months.  When I heard we traded up, I thought for sure it was for Young.

Then I watched CJ's games.  He makes "tough" throws look easy.  Footwork looks clean and on time.  Can fit the ball into any window.  Ideal size and arm strength.  Was just too much to overlook, college campus be damned.

Either way, I'm down, there is some excitement with the Panthers for the first time in half a decade.

29 minutes ago, t96 said:

I don’t think we were seriously interested in him at anywhere near the price he ultimately got. I think we were set on drafting a QB from day 1 of the offseason

Agreed.  Wonder how long Fitt and CHI has been working on this behind the scenes?

On 3/20/2023 at 5:10 PM, Jaxel said:

Man I am so conflicted. Feels like I switch between Stroud and Young every week. Honestly, glad I don't have to make the decision.

When I first heard of the trade, I sent some of my best friends a link to the Young review by McCown...thought for sure that's why we moved up.

3 days later, and after I really dug in, my mind was changed.  Had we finished with a top 5 pick last season, I would have been looking at these guys since the bowl season....but at 9, I never even felt it was worth it.

I prefer Stroud, but will be fine with whatever the FO and Coaches decide.

9 minutes ago, The Crown and the Claw said:

This is something that’s been discussed for a while. Not sure on timeline but definitely something that’s been in the works. I know there’s an emphasis on regulating the blue and making sure it’s consistent throughout. 

Good.

Also, let's don't do what everyone else is doing with matte....zig when they zag.

This is the most confusing move I think I have ever seen the Panthers make.

Weird.

17 hours ago, Floppin said:

I lived in Brunswick county and Wilmington for almost 15 years. It was time for me to get the fug out. I might move back someday but I doubt it. I definitely had fun, but after all that time I realized that I don't really like the beach at all.

I go to the beach twice a year, New Years Day for Polar Plunge, and usually get dragged out there one other time for friends and family.

I spend my time on the Intracoastal, and on the islands between Wrightsville and Topsail.  Make overnight runs up to Morehead and stay the night up there occasionally.

This is one of my rare Saturdays I'm having to work, otherwise, we would be on the boat this afternoon.

30 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

I always tell people that it's weird, but the air feels better from Pender County down. Something about the region is just great. My skin feels better, I'm generally happier. Great area. If my wife ever does get the wild hair to move, it's down there for me. Says a lot when I know people who came, lived there, moved on to other opportunities across the state...and they all find themselves coming back to settle somewhere in the Wilmington area.

Nah, not weird at all salt air is a very real thing...makes others nuts sometimes though.  I rarely take a shower after jumping in the water in the afternoons and evenings, love sleeping that way...reminds me of my childhood.

I deal with semi retirees and retirees almost solely in my business, rarely any families....I hear that all the time.  Why are you coming to Wilmington/Cape Fear? 

Common answers: Was stationed in J Ville when we were young, loved the area (not JAX).  Daughter went to UNCW, never could leave, we couldn't wait to follow her after our first visit to see her at school.  Lived there before I had to relocate to RDU/CLT.

1 hour ago, Panther'sBigD said:

If I'm overthinking it, which is the point of this question, I would order something easy to eat, that wouldn't be a huge issue if were to get cold if I was answering questions or making eye contact with the interviewers. Maybe a salad with steak on it. I wouldn't have a drink, unless I was known to be a drinker, because they'll already know that and would probably think that completely abstaining around them is a 'move.' 

If I'm being honest, I'm getting a steak, medium rare, and a green side. I usually drink water, and have a single glass of red wine with red meat. I'd probably ask the server's recommendation for a good wine to pair with whatever I order, or I might ask someone in the group, if it's already come up that they're really into wine.  

I'm not a blue chip college QB though, and they're probably used to taking charge, so I would expect them to be polite but assertive with their choices. Also, steak houses are the worst, because everything is a la carte, so you have a ton of plates taking up table space. I know it's dumb, but I would notice whether the QB prospect let the plates crowd his personal space, or if he made a deliberate attempt to reorganize/move them to make his table space more usable. 

Bad servers.

Good servers don't allow for plate crowding.

6 minutes ago, AggieLean said:

I’d want a steak, but I also don’t want to have to ask for a to-go box afterwards, and steak is heavy, so I’d go lamb chops, asparagus, and water w/ lemon. If we’re doing dessert, then I’d go with a slice of apple pie, hold the ice cream. 

Leave the box, keep the cannoli.

31 minutes ago, lightsout said:

 

Being from the area myself, it's a very love it or hate it city. I was excited to take the wife around a couple years ago and she was very meh about it. I don't get it but that's my youth so I'll always consider it home a bit

I get it.

Wilmington is different, that's for sure.  You have to slow down, you have to realize folks don't work on Fridays, certainly not the weekends.

9 months out of the year I can jump in my truck and be at my boat in less than 10 minutes, head out to go catch Flounder, Trout, or Red Drum, back at the house before my son is finishing breakfast.  Pack the fam and the dog up, and head out  for a day of cruising, sand bar hopping, or fishing.

Head home after and eat fresh fish.

Run down to Southport on the boat for lunch?  Sure!

Mayfaire and fantastic restaurants are 5 minutes from my house and if you want, you can head downtown to catch most any band...river front.

I get it, if you visit Wilmington...may not look like much, but if you live the coastal life, it's an Awesome place to raise a family.

4 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

I'm a Cam stan and loved every minute he was in Carolina, but agree with you...there were reasons why he did not succeed as much as he could have here. Injuries, rarely slid properly, took unnecessary hits and the coaching staff did very little to surround him with talent. 

I think Young has learned to play a style that works to his benefit....highly cerebral, anticipatory and knows how to reestablish the pocket to open windows for himself. Whether or not this translates from college to the NFL is the big question. 

NFL players are faster, hit harder and everyone is a 5-star stud compared to college. Throwing windows, defensive schemes and pressure is a different animal. 

That middle paragraph I agree with 100%.  He seems to be a very smart QB that knows the position inside and out, but....and that's a big ole but.....it's yet to be seen if his playing style can translate, and for how long?

Again, at 9 and not giving up anything, I'm pulling the lever, and hoping for the best....after trading so much, I'd just be very hesitant to risk my coaching career on a hope and a hunch.  But that's just me.

2 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

As a fan of a franchise that very recently had a prototypical, athletic freak of a QB, Cam only enjoyed maybe 6-7 years of injury-free ball before his play sharply declined.

There is simply no way to predict productivity vs. injury at the next level. 

Young could be an outlier, or he could be part of the huge sample size. 

Cam played the position poorly.  Not that he was a bad QB, but that he chose to invite contact, as did his coach.  That's stupid, but that's who he is.

BTW, Young IS already an outlier, now you are asking him to be extremely lucky.  Possible, but doubtful....to me....and I matter zero.

16 minutes ago, XClown1986 said:

Yes, but those reasons proved to be invalid. The guys that passed on Allen and Mahomes as direct result of those choices. The goal of any scout, exec, coach in the league is to trust the process, but also learn from past mistakes.

And what about this offseason shows that the franchise is playing it safe? We are making some difficult and costly decisions to turn this team into a winner. Why would you then play it safe with the most important position in all of sports? These guys are swinging for the fences, not for singles or doubles. They are CLEARLY gambling. They played it safe with Rhule and it was an epic failure.

So...

We hired a coach that was just fired.

Overspent on an experienced, talented coaching staff.

Traded our #1 (and only reliable) receiver in his prime.

Actually made impact signings during free agency.

and traded for the #1 pick

.... None of these moves are safe, by any stretch. So them going with a "prototype" (physically) quarterback would seem almost out of joint with this new direction for the team. I don't think they feel, or have felt, that they have to play it safe, at all.

You and I have very different meanings of the word safe and risky.

IMO giving a lead leading contract to a college coach who never worked in the pro's is risky.  Allowing him to have roster control is risky.  Keeping him for a 3rd year after shitting the bed is risky.

Hiring some of the very best coaches in the league seems rather safe to me.  Moving up to 1 to not risk not getting your guy at 8-2...that seems safe to me.  

Drafting the smallest QB in league history at 1 seems very risky to me.

Like I said, we view the words differently.

1 minute ago, stan786 said:

I think this is where the difference if for me I completely agree Young is an outlier due to his size, but not because that makes him get injured at a higher rate because history doesnt show that.

But History does show his size is an outlier and I think if you look at it historically its probably for a number of reasons.

Its the same reason Richardson's accuracy makes him an outlier.

Players with these profiles do not get drafted this high unless they are special, because there is so little history of success with them.  The only successful comp to Richardson is Josh Allen, no other players with that profile got drafted high and the ones that didnt never succeeded. NFL teams generally only draft outliers if their skillsets make them special and the ones that arent dont really ever get the chance.

There is almost a survival of the fittest aspect to this, most QBs that short (Or that inaccurate but big and athletic) either get processed out to other positions or only get offers to smaller colleges because they dont fit the classic example of successful QBs and coaches generally coach to what is known. Then there isnt the development needed etc. NFL has moved more recently to one where small QBs have proven they can succeed (In very small samples).

I completely understand being nervous about drafting an outlier size QB at 1 and understand the logic of if your grade is similar to two guys take the non outlier. I am more arguing that these guys arent outliers because they get hurt more, its because they dont get the opportunities historically and its proven out for a number of different types of QBs lately. I remember when there was an argument you cant win with rushing QBs, and thats shifted pretty heavily as well.

OK.  I'll explain it as best as I can, and you are smelling what' I'm stepping in BTW....

Were we still sitting at 9, or even 5, I'd have no problem pulling the lever for Young, I think that he's a smart, capable QB that comes from great coaching, and has won in college.  All In, no problem at all.

But we aren't.  We gave up a 1st and a 2nd....as well as a top 20 WR who was under contract long term for the chance to move up to 1.  If this goes sideways, everyone in the front office and coaching staff will once again be looking for new jobs.  All of them.

That's why I believe that you have to go with the "prototypical" QB with that selection.  Perfect size, good coaching, winner, big arm, etc....checks all the boxes. 

There is a reason that Allen and Mahommes didn't go 1 overall, and it's those reasons are why I'm skeptical of Young at 1.

1 minute ago, stan786 said:

I agree with your sentiment up top, but we disagree pretty heavily on the injuries I can say as a Panthers fan I was nervous everytime cam got hit after his shoulder injury. As a Ravens fan i'm sure you hold your breathe when Lamar takes a hit. As a Bills fan you question if Allen hadnt got hurt last year do you win it all. 49ers had QBs big, small, in the pocket, out of the pocket get hurt to tank their year. Staffords arm is dead with no clear reason why. Tua gets his concussions because he lets his head ragdoll, Culter says he had 15 concussions in his career. RG3 tears his knee up on an unfortunate run, Wentz whos a big guy also tore his knee up on an unfortunate run.

All size QBs get hurt, there is zero correlation or evidence that smaller QBs or players get hurt at some increased level than big QBs. Its a total gut feel thing. Calling Bryce a 179 lb Maverick QB helps illustrate that bias there. I get it you like Stroud more and I dont blame you but I think its just disingenuous to push a narrative his size is immediately going to get him hurt more when no one knows because there is nothing to say that should necessarily be the case other than "Logically I feel that should be the case".

History is what I'm going with, not hope....it's fine to go with hope, it's fun, but not normally as productive.

How long is the list of QB's (that are good) that have been sub 6' tall?  Not 6', sub 6'.

Again, I'm not knocking Young, and were he just 3" taller, and or 20#s heavier/thicker, I'd be in his camp all day...and screaming about it from the rooftops.  However, he's not.  Now, I'm not a fan of where CJ went to school, but that doesn't bother me as much as not being a fan of Young's size.

2 minutes ago, stan786 said:

Yeah my whole stance in here in this thread there is nothing other than gut feels that would tell me Stroud is more likely to stay healthy than Young, both have been dinged up but not seriously injured, both have slight frames, I havent seen any data that says a 215 lb QB is less likely to get hurt than a 195 lb QB.

I would argue that Stroud can make all the throws better than Bryce but Bryce has the ability to put the team on his back to go win games more often on film than Stroud.

I think if you are drafting a guy 1 overall your goal should be the guy that can be your guy for 10+ years and I think they both can be that. But the second contract and what can they do when the talent around them drops a bit is definitely have a factor in that. If i'm the team I have concerns that Stroud cant take that next step I sure as heck would go Young, but I'm not sure I have those concerns.

If a team is just crossing their fingers the guy they take can make it to his second contract we are in a world of trouble.

I look at them a little differently than most.

IMO, you are buying a run with the trading of the assets, not a 10 year guy...there are SO few of those, think about how many 10 year starters there have been that stuck with a team for that long in the recent decades.  Not too many, and those are HOF guys who you don't care about giving said 2nd contract.

Now, that leads me to the next piece, to make said run, you need an above average/good QB that stays healthy for the full run.

As to the health thing, it's not gut that's telling me he won't make it, it's history.  There has never been a long term starter in the NFL at this guys size and playing weight....EVER.  Think about being a Skins fan during the RG3 years, or a Dolphins fan right now...scared to death every time a rusher sneaks by, or he your RB misses a blitz pickup?

You would be trying to get a HOF level QB, while also being the maverick who does so with a 179lb QB....

2nd contract with original team is probably the best indicator.

Not looking at the list all that much, I'd say you have about a 50/50 shot at getting a QB that becomes a decent starter.  The bad news, you need more than than to win in the league.

I'd expect at least a 50% washout rate just due to the over drafting of the players due to position.

3 minutes ago, stan786 said:

The downside of this is when you eventually commit the massive contract to him and he cant win when the supporting staff around him drops. Ideally if that were to happen we'd find someone to sell us our Stafford like the Rams situation lol.

My opinion is if Bryce is what I think he probably is he's going to be able to elevate the team in any build which is something that I think is really hard to find in a QB and separates the good for the greats. Which is where my internal argument comes from Stroud is safe with potential to be Special and I think Bryce is Special with the potential to completely crash and burn.

I wouldnt blame us for making either decision.

2nd contract isn't an issue for minimum 4 years, a window to win in the NFL is about that long as well....take the guy who has the best ability to stay healthy, make the throws and go win games.

If you have to worry about a 2nd contract, you are blessed.

25 minutes ago, Billy Goat said:

I was thinking about this yesterday. Not many no.1 pick QBs go into a good team from day 1. We have a good defense and a good OLine. With better coaching we could've had a winning record and made the play-offs and that was with 3 garbage QBs. Whoever we pick has a great foundation to start with.

We are setting up for a mini run...at least that's what it feels like.

Vets at thin positions, QB on rookie deal, capable backup, good O Line, great coaching staff (on paper), and an owner willing to spend money to win.

If the defense is above average, and the rookie shows that he can play and the moment isn't too big...we should make the playoffs next season, barring injuries, make a little run in year 2.

Just now, Jaxel said:

We've been building the team for 10byeats, get a qb that can win. It's time.

No, we haven't.

8 minutes ago, stan786 said:

As I argue Bryce, I want to say I agree completely with this take. Even at his worst I feel like Stroud is someone you can build around in a Rookie contract and simplify things enough to be the Goff that helped get the Rams to the Super Bowl. Issues becomes more the second contract where if we get to that point them i'm happy to deal with it then.
 

I think Stroud is the floor play for us for sure, I just think Bryce could easily be the home run. Not that Stroud cant, just think he's got a few more hurdles on that front with where his game is at currently.

These are the types of discussions on them I prefer because I do think Bryce has negatives that arent his size like arm strength.

This, IMO.

With Stroud on a 5 year deal, you can build the defense, and get enough skill position players around him to make a simpl"er" offense....Reich and crew can design said offense, I've never, ever had faith in our offense staffs through the years....I do now.

With Caldwell, Reich, McCown, and Brown....they can build the offense, and Stroud can make every throw...he's not going to need to get to his 3rd read his rookie year....not what will be called for.

Think what the Steelers die with Roethlisberger.....babied him along until the training wheels could come off....and they won...a LOT.

Take the Roethlisberger/Rivers, not the Kyler, and build the team.

1 minute ago, CanadianCat said:

Saw this on twitter, thought it was a funny and intriguing question.. 

If you one of the 3 QB's taken out for supper what do you order?

- A massive porterhouse to show you are the man?

- Fish to show your health conscious?

- Do you order beer if others are drinking?

 

What do you do?

At the most important job interview in my life, I'm not drinking if I'm 22 years old....would likely have a cocktail now and a glass of wine with dinner...but I'm almost double that age.  SO, it's ice water with lime.

Whatever appetizer and salad the server recommends, then likely a New York strip, rare to med rare, bearnaise sauce, with scalloped potatoes and asparagus.

Key Lime Pie for desert.