MasterAwesome

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Here you go, this is what I referenced.  Nothing wildly dishonest about what I said at all.     Go to the 2:40 mark with Sheela going at him in a non-prepared statement.    Shenna goes at him and asks if they are inserting Dalton because they are worried about Bryce's size.  That everyone is viewing it that way. Frank says it's not about size, limiting hits, safety concerns, etc.   Frank starts pimping some strategic reason that Andy can do MORE than one thing (implying Bryce limited them) and forces a D to play it different.   

We think it adds a little bit of mystery and surprise.  And to keep defenses off balance.  Why are they bringing this guy in. 

Strategic reasons. 

They could do more than one thing, that's what Andy gives us

He can do multiple things.

l

wildly dishonest IMO....is pretending Bryce Young wasn't limiting our O last year.  Frank told us multiple times Bryce was limiting what he could do.  Short yardage and his admission he added different pass plays downfield for Andy.  Then there was the eyeball test on Bryce.  Does he have strengths? Sure.  Does have have limitations in the NFL? 100% Yes. 

Lol.

I asked you to show me where Frank said Dalton presented a much greater threat than Bryce Young (your words) and you give me your interpretation of something completely different that he said. Most normal people would listen to Reich there and see that as standard coachspeak conveying confidence in his back-up QB and your brain translates that into Reich calling out Bryce’s limitations. No poo he’s gonna say Andy can do more than one thing…why the hell would Reich say to everyone “hey if you see Andy coming in on 4th and short, IT MEANS QB SNEAK!”. If your interpretation is correct, then you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think that’d be a headline in multiple articles across multiple publications. Yet not a single site reported on it or even referenced anything he said here…that’s why you had to dig deep to find the source material rather than a single reference to it from an outside source. There’s a reason why The Huddle was the only place talking about it lol we are totally known for our rational levelheaded takes and NOT sensationalizing everything like it’s a damn soap opera (cue the pic of Nicole Tepper hugging Bryce).

I guess I could claim “CRA says he thinks Bryce Young is trash and a huge bust” and if anyone asks me to source you saying that, I’ll just give my own multiple paragraph interpretation breaking down one of your posts.

Btw having a difference of opinion is not being “wildly dishonest”…what a crazy suggestion for a mod of a discussion board to make. Claiming someone said something that they didn’t say? Yeah that’s being objectively dishonest.

18 hours ago, strato said:

I never claimed to be level headed. Just not blind.

Well, we all need to use our brains too...not just our eyes.  Our eyes tell us that Bryce was objectively bad last year.  Our brains are what allow us the critical thinking to deduce why Bryce was bad, which is the crux of the disagreement.  Perhaps Bryce just doesn't have the tools to be a starting QB in this league and this season will confirm that for us.  But you seem to not even be able to fathom or acknowledge the possibility that Bryce's poor play (i.e. bad footwork, bad downfield accuracy, bad decision-making, etc.) could in large part be a product of abysmal circumstances including poor coaching, poor playcalling, poor pass protection, and a poor receiving corps.  You call them "excuses", which they are, but how can you not understand that those can very well be inextricably linked?  It's like getting punched in the stomach repeatedly during karaoke night and then people complaining that your singing was off pitch.  Are you actually a good singer?  I don't know, that performance really sucked but I'm willing to give you one more song under better conditions.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well Reich pretty bluntly said a meh vet QB had basic downfield plays installed for him for the week that Bryce didn't have. 

Reich also said that an old and unremarkable Andy Dalton being inserted on 4th down presented a much greater threat than Bryce Young (the #1 overall pick we mortgaged our future with). 

Frank was a safe coaching pick off Rhule.  Bryce Young doesn't have the NFL tools for a safe coach to even be that.  That's the 2024 story.   Bryce can't make the throws.   Bryce can't sit in a traditional pocket.  NFL defenses know that.  The limitations are pretty glaring despite whatever strengths to his game may exist.  Bryce couldn't do anything to change what defenses were getting away with.  He just played right into it. 

Oh my god please post any reference to this.  This might be the most wildly dishonest assertion I've seen on these boards in a while.  Here is what Reich actually said for anyone who cares about facts:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/panthers-frank-reich-says-using-andy-dalton-in-short-yardage-spots-can-limit-bryce-youngs-exposure/

It was about limiting his exposure because, yes, he's a small QB.  And something Reich had a history of doing, even back in Indianapolis.  It's funny that you take to heart the decisions and philosophies of a failed ineffective coach.  Remember when Ron would choose to punt the ball instead of electing to let Gano kick 50ish yard FGs?  Well, it turns out Gano actually had a pretty strong leg and was solid from deep.

41 minutes ago, strato said:

So okay according to you, and to be fair, others too, the state of affairs is:

he couldn’t have done any better last year because of all the horrible players and coaches that didn’t do their jobs. 

And

People that talk about him not doing a good job, even though he was historically bad, are ruining it for his fans.

And top it off with: real fans know what good is, and the doubters don't.  Got it.

 

 

If one side talks about how awful Bryce was last year and the other side talks about how Bryce was put in an impossible situation, then it's just going to be a circular unproductive back and forth ad nauseum until we see how this season plays out.  And I think that's where most of us are...the roster is what it is, so let's just look ahead to this upcoming season instead of rehashing the same tired conversations over and over again about last season. "Was Bryce bad last year?" is such a boring and juvenile debate to be having halfway into the offseason.

For as much as you and others like to talk about how delicate and sensitive the Bryce fans are, y'all get just as triggered towards the people voicing opposing positive sentiments.  You're just two sides of the same coin...it's really silly to get on a high horse about how you're the levelheaded ones.  I similarly find it ironic how your side of the aisle always prides themselves on being "realists", when I would argue that the realest realists are those who understand that Bryce is our unquestioned starting QB and it is in our best interests for him to succeed.  Because that's the reality of the situation.  Instead, you guys are complaining that we didn't bring in Nathan Rourke from the Canadian Football League (lol) to compete with Bryce Young.  Y'all know damn well that if we signed Nathan Rourke or if we were in the Falcons' position of paying Cousins and then drafting Penix in the Top 10 (both moves that are being praised in here), you would be laughing your asses off at how stupid the Panthers are.  "LOLOL Nathan Rourke is who we bring in to push Bryce?? What an insulting farce of a QB competition".

5 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

4 seconds in the air and 33 year old Thielen, someone else is catching that ball in a real game lol

I really doubt Thielen is running these deep routes in a real game (at least I hope not), which is what slightly confuses me about why we're running this in practice.  But given that Thielen was the receiver here, then 4 seconds in the air makes sense considering that's legit how long it takes him to run that far.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well, the argument was made that from Stroud to Mahomes.....no QB would have done better here.  How you just going to, not say something lol 

While I think it'd be silly for anyone to argue that Mahomes wouldn't have done any better here (and is obviously leagues above Bryce), it's worth mentioning...I watched the Raiders/Chiefs game late last year and man did Mahomes and that offense look like absolute trash in a game where Mahomes was continuously running for his life behind an o-line that couldn't block for poo, while trying to throw to receivers getting zero separation, and getting zero help from his run game.  You know, the norm for Bryce every week.  It really did look like I was watching a Panthers game.  That was a game against Aidan O'Connell with a final stat line of 9/21 for 62 yards 0 TDs and yet Mahomes and the Chiefs managed 7 total points up until 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter in arguably garbage time.

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Only here on the huddle has acknowledging reality become only negativity and or hate.

Remember when you claimed Bryce never worked privately with his receivers last offseason? Then when you were presented with an article and photos showing just that, you called it a fake photo op? Remember continuously suggesting that Bryce is shorter than his official height taken at the Combine? Remember the report that came out about Nicole Tepper wanting Stroud and you saying that was BS that the team leaked so Nicole Tepper could save face?
 

Most of what we discuss in here is opinion-based, but those are three empirical evidence-based examples that your conspiracy-brain has rejected based on nothing but your feelings…so I think you’ve forfeited your right to invoke “reality”, buddy. Unless we’re just operating in two different dimensions of the Multiverse. But if we’re actually acknowledging reality, you’ve taken coping to new heights. I’ve genuinely never seen anyone work so hard trying to gaslight people into believing that any report you disagree with is automatically fake.

1 hour ago, Jackie Lee said:

This is a little different I suppose

 

As someone with no swag who has about a 39% dap success rate, I can’t overstate how much anxiety this video gave me. But coach nailed it.

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

You are going to trigger some many size bros with that picture….

Oopsies 

6 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

pointing out he is smaller then last season is considered "hate"?  Interesting

He looks about the same size to me...here's a pic from this time last year for comparison:

20 hours ago, top dawg said:

It appeared to me that you said basically the same thing that he did is all.

I guess you could say he....parroted someone else's opinion 

12 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I shared supporting evidence. You just parrot other people's opinions. We ain't the same.

On 3/29/2024 at 9:45 PM, Jackie Lee said:

Hmm I'd like to go back and watch what he had on Mingo last year as well....Haven't watched their tape back to back but the ras scores are nearly identical

 

You're not the same?  You're very much parroting things other people have posted in here.  You didn't come up with the Mingo/Legette comparison lol.  Seems like you both read evaluations of prospects and based on what is compelling to you, you formed an opinion.  That's a very normal thing to do...not sure why the petty self-righteousness.

Your evidence only supports that the two of them are very similar physically/athletically.  I don't think you've supported your broader argument that they are similar prospects.  You're basically unironically doing the meme on here where every short agile WR prospect = Steve Smith.

1 hour ago, strato said:

No he is not being blamed for the last two seasons but you really cannot excuse Young’s effect last year. I know you want to, so you do.

 

 

So by your logic, the jury is still out on Ian Thomas because of the "Young effect".  All we have to do is ignore all of his previous seasons pre-Young where he looked like the same guy as last year.

Now a rookie Bryce Young is being blamed for TMJ having done nothing in his three year career.  Poor guy is turning into the "Thanks Obama" meme.

30 minutes ago, CRA said:

I do think you can talk about what we can see....and Bryce Young to date, presents more like an Eli Manning type at QB than a Cam Newton in terms of how he carries himself.   I mean, there isn't one path/way to do things.  

end of the day, Eli got 2 rings. 

Right...that's my point.  There's no one archetype of a leader.  Some people seem to think a leader is someone who is fiery and screams a lot.  Like I guess Travis Kelce screaming in the face of Andy Reid in the Super Bowl must have given these people chills as the epitome of leadership.  So that's what people want and expect from Bryce, but for better or worse he ain't that...although he does have that side to him as well as was evident during the primetime game against the Bears.  I'm not even saying Bryce is for sure some kind of amazing leader.  But I think judging his leadership off how much he yells and his team's W/L record is asinine.  For example the camera would often pan to him on the sideline standing up and rallying his o-line.  That's more of the stuff I associate with leadership.

19 hours ago, frankw said:

Worst team in the league by a wide margin (didn't we get shut out by the fuging Jaguars lol) and you don't see a distinct lack of leadership? That starts at the top.

I agree that we had a distinct lack of leadership, but I don't know how you can begin to assign the blame to any one individual player.  A head coach, sure.  But I think if your team of grey-haired NFL coaches and multi-year NFL vets has to rely on a 22-year-old rookie to be the sole leader or else everything comes crashing down, then you've got some serious problems in that locker room that go far beyond the QB.  Saying "we were a bad team, ergo Bryce Young is a bad leader" just seems like a weird leap to make.

Surely your criteria for a QB's leadership isn't as simple as his team's W/L record...right?  I'm just curious then, do you think Cam Newton was a good leader every odd season, but a bad leader every even season?  Or is it more likely that team performance is an unreliable metric for leadership?

Blast Young's arm strength and physical size all you want, that's fair game.  But baselessly questioning Young's leadership makes you no better than the people you railed against for questioning Stroud's character in the offseason.  Let's not be one of those people who apply principles inconsistently depending on whether it's someone you like or dislike.

36 minutes ago, frankw said:

First of all. Don't come at me sideways with this and act like you haven't seen the loudest Bryce Young defenders shitposting about how big of a bust Jonathan Mingo is while laying out excuses for Young.

If we are talking about lack of effort. They both can and should get the smoke. That goes for any player in that regard. We didn't finish with 2 wins because everyone was laying it on the line. Of course when your QB throws 2 pick sixes to the same defender in one game who is going to go out of their way?

But regardless for the subject you are bringing to me situational awareness is needed. Jonathan Mingo is not sitting on a 40+ million dollar guaranteed contract. This is not Jonathan Mingo's team. He is not the face of the franchise. We didn't trade a premium player and multiple picks including a first overall to acquire him.

It's ultimately up to the QB to lead his team. Why do you have an issue with me or anyone else expecting that of Bryce Young?

By all accounts it looks like we are assuredly drafting another WR in the second round. That rookie will require some refining and he will require his starting QB along with his coaches to guide him in learning the offense. Just as Mingo has. That's what I expect out of my #1 pick. Look what Stroud has done for his receiving core as a rookie. He's also brings an undisputed presence of leadership. That is what I want to see. Plain and simple.

So you're telling me you came in here to complain about something someone said about Mingo at some time in the past in some other thread that actually has nothing to do with anything anyone said about him in here.  Got it...not sure why you proudly clarified that as if that makes you sound reasonable.  At least it makes more sense why you just made a general passive-aggressive comment about these mysterious people who say Mingo is the worst NFL receiver we ever drafted instead of actually directly quoting a post, since there was nothing to quote.

Also can you clarify your basis for comparison as to how Stroud brings an undisputed presence of leadership while questioning Young's leadership?  What exactly are you basing that off of?

3 hours ago, frankw said:

Idk about Legette. But can we please stop acting like Mingo is the worst WR we've ever drafted? Certainly he left some things to be desired but we traded up to draft a QB #1 that couldn't even hit him deep in one of the most basic scenarios any starting QB worth his salt turns into a touchdown 10 times out of 10.

It's fair to wonder how Mingo would have looked if Dalton had played a few more games.

It's so strange...you complain about people treating Bryce with kiddie gloves, yet you find it so offensive that people say Mingo is not a good route runner?  That's where criticism goes over the line for you?  That's more coddling than I've seen anyone do for Bryce.  Don't talk about people white knighting for Bryce and then be this sensitive to the mildest of criticisms for Mingo.

Mingo had 3 catches for 21 yards with Dalton throwing the ball 58 times so it doesn't bode particularly well for your thought experiment.  If you think our offense looked so much more effective with Dalton and yet Mingo is putting up the same consistently minimal production with both QBs, then that would suggest Mingo is at fault for his own struggles.

15 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

Jfc can we just not with the bot?

I just don't understand why it bothers people so much and why you guys can't just not click the thread (or put the bot on ignore).  Even amongst a standard fluff piece, there are pieces of factual information I enjoy extracting from these articles that I hadn't heard otherwise.  Something as simple as Bryce and Canales getting together for 3-hour long dinners to build rapport and reflect on last season's struggles.  Maybe not groundbreaking news, but it still provides more value and insight to me than a hundredth mock draft or a thread discussing whether we're going to even win a single game next year. 

36 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i forgot it was banned. 

i might try to lift it leading up to the draft.

Yes please do...the "fluff" is just a small percentage of what it posts; it also often breaks news and posts articles with good factual info that nobody else here would have linked otherwise.  I don't see why we can't just apply the same rule we use broadly of "if you aren't interested, don't click it".  People can ignore topics posted by the bot instead of swarming to the thread to post about how much those posts bother them.

1 hour ago, CRA said:

well, the team that traded for the 33rd last year was for a QB that slid... 

I mean, and all they got was a 3rd.  That's some bad recent precedent in terms of value to get out of it.  and we are the Panthers.....so we probably would trade the 33rd for a 8th rounder.  Only to realize, that didn't exist.  

I mean, I like a solid well-timed "I mean" as much as the next guy, but...it's getting a bit out of control.

5 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I know Luvu did and we got a couple years out of him. My point was that you don’t trade for bad team’s garbage bin, you sign them cheap and hope they work out. We basically said the same thing.

Also, not sure I agree with you on dumpster diving bad teams. I think teams like Pittsburgh and KC are good places to dive as well because with more good players at certain positions, the backup they can’t re-sign might be a quality starter when given the chance. That might be more common than finding a poorly coached and developed diamond. It’s a bit of luck and it doesn’t happen that often. Addison was our last high level gem. Luvu is actually a decent example of who to go for because the Jets had quality defensive players. It was their offense/QBs that sucked hence not trading for Darnold would have been smart.

Yeah that's reasonable.  I think I take more issue with people in here discounting a signing just because they came from a bad team, because I see that a lot (including with Luvu when we signed him).  Your take on Luvu being the type of player we should go for because the Jets' D was loaded is a more nuanced approach than I think most people take in here.  I can definitely see both sides, which ultimately leads me to the probably uncontroversial take of evaluating players on their own merits and not harping too much on what team they came from.

15 hours ago, frankw said:

Yeah it's a tough situation could have made a case for keeping him given our need but also can easily make the case that he was an acquisition made out of necessity and he hasn't held up his end of the bargain now with two different teams despite where he was drafted.

Nothing against the guy he didn't make the trade Fitterer did. Good luck to him.

Hey let's just agree to stop sifting through the lost and found bin of teams like the Jaguars going forward considering we're the worst team in the league until proven otherwise.

1 hour ago, WhoKnows said:

Hah, we’ve been sifting through the Jets, Browns and Jax trash bins. At least we learned something after firing Fitterer. Don’t trade 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for their garbage, do what every other team does and sign them to cheap deals and cut them if they don’t do well.

Keep in mind Frankie Luvu came from an awful Jets team's trash bin.  I dunno, I can almost see the opposite approach in favor of scouring through bad teams' rosters.  Who do you think is more likely to have a hidden gem with untapped potential?  A team like us with a knack for bad coaching, inability to develop players, and playing players out of position?  Or a team like the Chiefs or Steelers?  If those teams let a player go, I'm going to be skeptical and wonder if they're a product of their system who was overperforming relative to their skill and talent level.

That being said, I'm not advocating trading assets for these players (I'm wary of trading assets period) like we did with Henderson, but I'm not opposed to "dumpster diving" Free Agency for players who just came from bad teams.

17 minutes ago, frankw said:

Why would I make that up? I believe it was PNP that had a livestream reaction going and they posted it to YouTube that talked about that blurb in there on his deep ball inaccuracy and there was a thread here that discussed it as well. You're saying I'm lying saying I'm hating yada yada after you sought out the post to quote all this on initially. Kinda disappointing but hey it's cool. Appreciate the convo.

If you aren't even willing to concede something so innocuous like Bryce Young having a genuine private workout with his receivers (when shown an actual article documenting it) or Bryce Young being genuinely 5'10 (which is already very short for a QB) despite his official measurement being taken at the Combine, then don't clutch your pearls and get offended if someone thinks you're a hater and/or simply questions a claim you've made but not backed up.  Take some responsibility for how you're being perceived on these boards.  You're painting yourself as a dishonest actor when you show a repeated pattern of unwillingness to accept anything that conflicts with your opinion.